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trials in trailing figs
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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
(Offline)
1
September 10, 2022 - 4:04 pm

Out of respect for Jafar's request, and in recognition that members of this board have patiently provided me with considerable help over the years, here is the story of the fig experiments. Presented in the hope that board members will find it at least entertaining (feel free to mock me – I'm even including bonus non-fig material to make it easy) and maybe get some info out of it.

Background. My house is on a 0.1 acre lot, and in the back is a huge, and still rapidly growing, pin oak which shades a lot of the yard. In the front a neighbor had a huge evergreen which shaded much of the front yard, and my yard was covered with all sorts of evergreen shrubbery. One happy day I got the call at work that the big evergreen was being taken out, and while the people were there, could our evergreens also be removed? As long as I can plant some fruit trees...

Well there was no planting possible. It was impossible to dig a hole. A friend came over with a roto-tiller, which simply bounced off the ground in places. A little prep needed. All told I gave up counting after 27 yards - no joke - of imported soil, compost, etc. (some went into back and side yards). Also wide scale sheet mulching. Any time I saw a wheelbarrow in somebody's yard, there was a Pavlovian response.

Eventually the soil was good. The next bright idea was to turn it into a miniature fruit garden (https://openlibrary.org/books/.....uit_garden). Space limited, get some variety and distributed harvests rather than a bumper crop off of two trees. On to figs. Two Negronnes were planted. Why two? Had read how they were the best tasting, had sampled, and really, the shop had some 2 for 1 deal. So along with apples, cherries, pears and plums, in went the Negronnes.

Having exerted the physical effort, now some lessons were provided. Bambi was a wrecking ball. Between Bambi and the flying worms, the apples were a lot of work relative to the value provided, and Bambi destroyed the cherries. The Negronnes however were safe, and despite so-so conditions were very productive. Are there any other figs? Reading and talking to people in OR, not much works, and there was even an article or two in the old HOS journal about this. But I got to talk to people successfully growing figs in WA, BC, and coastal CA, and some of them were kind enough to give, sell, or swap cuttings to me. At the time these were varieties which had zero to very limited commercial availability in the US. Now several should be available.

So the candidate cuttings were turned into baby trees and progressively up-potted. The idea was that if they could ripen figs of adequate quality and in adequate quantity, they would be candidates for a hole in the ground. The standard of course was the Negronne. For the tree to make sense, the figs would have to be different, or better, or ripen at a different time. Now I knew that the quality would be worse in a pot than in the ground, and the pots were kept in a semi-poor area so not a bad simulation in practice. But some made the grade and started to go in ground (apples, cherries out). But remember that big evergreen that blocked sun? At this point my neighbor decided to plant some other shrubbery which to this day shortens the sun hours some little trees could get.

The candidate figs, and their outcomes (all anybody really cares about, but hope you have a laugh at the previous gibberish):

Adriatic JH. This provides a very good fruit. Almost tastes of strawberry jam. It produced well enough in the pot to go in the ground, but with the neighbor's shrubbery nearby did not produce well. After a couple years it went to a new home, where from reports it produces well enough with very tasty fruit.

Brunswick. At the time it was named Pacific Queen, but later testing found this to be actually a Brunswick. https://forums.homeorchardsoci.....ood-homes/ I tried to contact all who got one from me with the bad news. Mine never made it in ground, it simply was nothing special.

Dauphine. Tasty large figs, OK production. Turns out this was commercially available, though renamed as Stella. Mine met with some kind of accident, can't recall what.

Doree. Figs were good but nothing special, modest production.

Green Ischia. Did not produce at my place.

Hollier. In ground. It produces well, one of the favorites for flavor, and the flavor is different (a honey fig).

Lampiera. The figs are wonderful, but barely any are produced or ripen. Not sure why I keep it (huge pot) and anticipate it will not be kept much longer.

Longue D'Aout. Moderate production, good flavor. It just recently got a hole, too early to tell more.

Marseille Black VS. This was very productive in the pot, and is quite productive despite being in about the worst location for sun (the Adriatic JH had been right beside it). The flavor is similar to, but better than, Black Mission. Also it ripens earlier and more consistently than Black Mission. There is a Black Mission in the neighborhood that gets great sun; the neighbor and I have done side by side comparisons.

Olympian. This wants to produce a lot. The figs are good, but not great. It does taste a bit different than the other figs I grow. The tree is still in a huge pot waiting for a hole to open up.

Pastilliere. The few figs I got off it were good, but it simply dropped most figs, which I was warned about in advance. It is long gone.

Ronde de Bordeaux. In ground, early ripening main crop. Figs are a bit small. For the first couple years it was only good, despite a reputation for being among the best. But now it is roughly comparable to the Negronne. Some weeks it might be better, others not as good. It is productive.

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jafar
770 Posts
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September 10, 2022 - 6:46 pm

I really appreciate the post, thank you.

Does your Negronne produce main crop, or only breba?  Are you comparing the breba to main crop Ronde de Bordeaux?  At my old place Negronne sometimes ripens main crop, haven't yet here in many years so far.

Are you the one who gave me my Brunswick, at the time considered unknown?  When it produces brebas, they are unique, if only that they are enormous, and I like them.  This year no brebas and I don't think the main crop will ripen here.

I'm intrigued by Adriatic.

I have a Stella that I haven't cared well for, but the couple figs it produced were not at all promising.  Your post makes me consider giving it more of a chance.  Is it breba figs you get from it?

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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3
September 11, 2022 - 9:21 am

Does your Negronne produce main crop, or only breba?  Are you comparing the breba to main crop Ronde de Bordeaux?  At my old place Negronne sometimes ripens main crop, haven't yet here in many years so far.

My Negronnes produce a modest breba crop. The breba crop is OK to good, nothing special. Once the main crop gets going, it continues for weeks, and those cows need to be milked pretty much daily. 

Despite the intention to have distributed harvests, there is considerable overlap in production. It is very common to be able to lay out a sampler plate with Hollier, Marseilles Black VS, Negronne, and Ronde de Bordeaux. Sometimes there may be some Longue D'Aout and/or Olympian instead of H or MVS. The LDA and O are smaller and potted so their output is less.  

Are you the one who gave me my Brunswick, at the time considered unknown? When it produces brebas, they are unique, if only that they are enormous, and I like them.  This year no brebas and I don't think the main crop will ripen here.

Yes. When I told you afterwards about the error, you just thanked me for the info. I'm glad that it has worked out for you.

I'm intrigued by Adriatic.

If you aren't getting production from your Negronne, I suspect an Adriatic JH (which from what I've read and been told, is supposed to be different than Adriatic) would be an ornamental for you. 

Though I am curious - are you certain that your current Negronne is actually a Negronne?

I have a Stella that I haven't cared well for, but the couple figs it produced were not at all promising.  Your post makes me consider giving it more of a chance.  Is it breba figs you get from it?

I believe you mean your Dauphine? The fig people have been fighting the issue of certain fig sellers (nursery and otherwise) re-naming varieties, which is understandable. 

My Dauphine was killed years ago, can't recall how. Going by memory, not sure if breba or main. Again going by memory, while the figs were good, they were not special.

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
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September 11, 2022 - 12:01 pm

Great post Quokka, as usual. 
Have you ever grown Desert King or Lattarula? Those seem to me to be the most recommended varieties here in PNW.

John S
PDX OR

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jafar
770 Posts
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5
September 11, 2022 - 1:14 pm

@quokka 

My Negronne was from a cutting rooted by Plumfan from our forum.  I believe he considered it a synonym of Violette de Bordeaux and I use the names interchangeably.  I understand there's some controversy as to whether they are the same.

It's brebas are the best figs I've eaten.  It performs better at my old place in the suburbs, compared to here in the forest.  It's maybe a week later than Desert King in ripening the brebas, or similar timing. 

I've recently added Ronde de Bordeaux, LSU Tiger and Champagne.  I'd also added Olympia, but mowed it to the ground inadvertently.  Plus I have a small tree that I thought was Lattarula, given to me at an HOS event, can't remember by whom, but it has pink flesh and I suspect maybe its Lattarola, or something else, I didn't know that Lattarula and Lattarola were different names and maybe have mis-transcribed the label.

Unfortunately I was out of the country when this years crop of breba, the 2nd time for the small tree, were ripe.

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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6
September 11, 2022 - 4:22 pm

Thanks for the very kind comment John.

Have you ever grown Desert King or Lattarula? Those seem to me to be the most recommended varieties here in PNW.

I have a Desert King. I sampled Lattarula multiple times before my initial plantings. To me it was just sweet, no real flavor, so I've never been tempted to grow it.

My Negronne was from a cutting rooted by Plumfan

Then I would be confident it is Negronne. Partly because of trusting Plumfun, and partly because he definitely has Negronne. 

I believe he considered it a synonym of Violette de Bordeaux and I use the names interchangeably.  I understand there's some controversy as to whether they are the same.

This resulted in me going down a rabbit hole. I used to have a dendogram, I think the NCGR in Davis made it, of 200+ fig varieties. I can't find it now. But they had them as the same, and on that basis I would agree with Plumfun. 

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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7
September 21, 2022 - 4:37 pm

The frost in the first week of April set back a lot of plants, as we all know. With respect to the fig trees, they all lost leaves, and those that had brebas mostly lost them. I think the Negronnes produced just a few (single digits) breba. Now all the plants are running late. Usually at this time of year the figs need to be harvested. The only tree to ripen a fig so far is the Ronde de Bordeaux. The Hollier, Marseilles Black VS, and Negronne have a lot of figs, but at this point it doesn't look good for them ripening unless we now have extended warm and sunny weather.

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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8
October 12, 2022 - 3:59 pm

Finally, about a month later than in previous years, the Negronne and Marseilles Black have produced their first ripe figs. The Ronde de Bordeaux is looking about done for the year. The Hollier has been the production champion this fall, and is still pumping them out.

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sweepbjames
NE Portland, OR Cully Neighborhood
233 Posts
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October 16, 2022 - 1:09 pm

Until undertaking some pruning based on my, as yet fledgling, understanding of the Rick Shory blog on keeping figs small enough, I had been evolving to cutting back the fruiting stems to a point just above what I considered to be potentially viable for ripening before the rains/spoilage. My thought was to direct more energy toward those figs and hurry them along rather than support the extension growth. My imagination continues to suppose  some success toward that ends. I'd be doing it now, or before.

I did some massive restructuring starting summer '21 after brebas, and into the fall sacrificing some, not all fall crop, trying to integrate a transition to that good information written about here elsewhere. So my new growth may have been effected by the strange spring weather as well as the shock of some admittedly pretty extreme pruning. Thus, leaving the unpruned existing branches waay a lot of extra energy to extend out of bounds allotted at the planting site. So virtually I had nothing this year, breba nor main crop.  I think it'll take a couple years to get me better directed. My only fig is Lattarula, sometimes you just like the one you have. I do like sweet though. These I like very ripe, looking a bit like honey when torn open. I find some depth of flavor, maybe subtleties compared to some. Lattarula is very vigorous. I prefer it to a Desert King that I manage for a friend.

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jafar
770 Posts
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10
October 17, 2022 - 8:39 pm

James,

I think I prefer a good Lattarula over a good Desert King too.  Better flavor.  But Desert King seems less fragile, and is firmer while still good - seems a little easier to manage to me.  Although admittedly mine isn't doing great.  Probably needs more water.

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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11
November 2, 2022 - 5:34 pm

Final report, in case anybody is considering any of these.

Ronde de Bordeaux quit a while ago, before rains started.

Marseilles Black is no good when the rains start - wet MB figs turn nasty.

Negronne produced lightly at the end, usually it is the champ.

Hollier just kept producing good figs through Halloween, haven't checked it since.

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Chris M
Philomath, OR
147 Posts
(Offline)
12
April 26, 2023 - 10:01 am

I  like fresh figs with yoghurt and honey. Does anyone cook or dry any of these? Are some better than others. I bake a fair bit and like to use local or homegrown fruit when I can. I have eaten dried figs but I not made dried figs.

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jafar
770 Posts
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13
April 27, 2023 - 10:39 am

@quokka thanks for the report.  I'm not sure I knew of Hollier.  It sounds like its one you'd recommend, yes?

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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14
April 27, 2023 - 5:01 pm

Chris - the Negronne dries well, any of those mentioned should be OK for baking, the Negronne works for cooking.

Jafar - yes, one I would recommend strongly.

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jafar
770 Posts
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15
April 28, 2023 - 9:09 pm

quokka, Sounds like you prefer Hollier to other honey fig like Lattarula.  Have you had Peter's Honey fig or LSU Champagne?

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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16
April 29, 2023 - 11:39 am

Jafar, definitely prefer it to Lattarula. But they have different timing, so if one liked the honey fig type, having both would give a very extended season.

Never tried LSU Champagne. At the time of starting the trials, it wasn't revealed as a fig with productive success in a so-so climate. Peter's Honey was already commercially available so there was no motivation to experiment with it.

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Chris M
Philomath, OR
147 Posts
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17
April 29, 2023 - 11:53 am

Quokka , where do you source all these figs. You have tried more types than I have even hear of.

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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18
April 30, 2023 - 7:57 am

A source that if nothing else will overwhelm with the numbers of names (far greater than the number of varieties) is http://figs4fun.com/Varieties.html

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Chris M
Philomath, OR
147 Posts
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19
May 14, 2023 - 7:04 pm

Quokka How did you fig do this winter? Jafar mentioned in another forum how his loquats had a hard time. I think our winters are changing and I was wondering which figs did well(or poorly)

 

Chris

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jafar
770 Posts
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20
May 16, 2023 - 11:31 am

My figs seem to have all done fine in the cold.

 

The only problem is that the main crop figs on my Negronne all molded and affected the area around them.  Bad timing with development and weather made them difficult to remove, but big enough to rot 🙁 .  I have two.  So I pruned off most of the moldy areas from one (along with most of the brebas), and left them on the other.  Will see what happens.

But Desert King and Stella and Brunswick seem relatively undamaged.  Small Laturolla, LSU Tiger, LSU Champagne and Ronde de Bordeaux were unscathed.

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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21
May 16, 2023 - 12:10 pm

Every fall I try to strip off the unripened figs, or at least try to get the mummies off over the winter. I'm not always successful in getting this done.

Regarding winters - what I was taught was that if there is a dead section on a fig branch, that dead section will extend back towards the trunk over time. So I try to cut those off when I see them. If we have a cold snap, there is often some die-back at tips, small branches. I try to get those bits cut off during winter/spring pruning. I don't think it is possible to compare one variety to another in my yard due to different conditions. They all get a little. The main thing I have seen with the very recent winters is that last year's late freeze set all plants back (not just figs) which affected late season ripening, as noted in a post above. This year the cold sticking around longer has made everything later, but I haven't seen the damage of last year.

Some years ago we had a major snow storm, with freezing temps. At that time only the Negronnes were in ground. One was killed to the base. So I cut it down, and started to dig up the roots, only to discover green shoots on the roots. I recover the roots. Two years later had a good crop, three years later it was bountiful. Over the last few years I have given away hundreds (literally) of cuttings from it, and have started to remove some trunks every year.    

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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September 8, 2023 - 9:51 am

For the past week or two, the RDB has been producing well. The Hollier is once again extremely productive. In the past few days the Negronne and the Marseilles have started to ripen a few, with the Negronne starting to gather steam.

 

The Olympian (potted) has not ripened any yet, but has a good fruit set. It is competing for a sunny hole in the ground with the Desert King and the Longue D' Aout, which are both in ground but lack adequate sun. Whichever do not win the (possibly opening this winter) sunny hole will be rehomed if possible.  Also potted, the Lampiera has a half dozen figs, none close to ripe, and is going to have to leave. Perhaps somebody will want a mostly ornamental tree.

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Chris M
Philomath, OR
147 Posts
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23
September 8, 2023 - 11:30 am

Quokka , are they coming in about the same time as they usually do?

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jafar
770 Posts
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24
September 8, 2023 - 11:55 am

My Negronne has lots of small main crop figs that are just getting some color.  I'm doubtful I'll get any before the rains and cool weather set in and they I'll need to remove them all if I don't want a moldy mess.  My mother has the same tree, from which these came, in the warmer suburbs against the house, and she usually gets ripe main crop figs in September, but the quality isn't nearly as good as the brebas, and the spotted wing drosophila are going nuts by then.

I've got a young Ronde De Bordeaux that isn't fruiting yet.  My small LSU Tiger has grown quite a bit and has a good number of completely green main crop on it.  Maybe when it is older they will ripen in time.  Also have Champaign that is a bit smaller and a bunch of fruit.

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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25
September 8, 2023 - 3:21 pm

Chris - the Negronne main crops has traditionally started in early Sept for me. The RDB seems a bit early this year. The Hollier and Marseilles seem close enough to what they do in most years. The Marseilles would do better if it actually got some sun - neighbor planted after it went in, it gets little.

Jafar - it seems like your site is not wonderful for figs. I wish you success but admit to being dubious about the prospects for some varieties you have listed. But it is hard to tell when they are young.

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jafar
770 Posts
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September 9, 2023 - 9:54 am

quokka said
Chris - the Negronne main crops has traditionally started in early Sept for me. The RDB seems a bit early this year. The Hollier and Marseilles seem close enough to what they do in most years. The Marseilles would do better if it actually got some sun - neighbor planted after it went in, it gets little.

Jafar - it seems like your site is not wonderful for figs. I wish you success but admit to being dubious about the prospects for some varieties you have listed. But it is hard to tell when they are young.

  

Yes, your conclusions accord with mine.  But I figured I'd give them a try.  At least figs are resilient and don't take much care to survive. 

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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27
September 9, 2023 - 2:30 pm

jafar said

Yes, your conclusions accord with mine.  But I figured I'd give them a try.  At least figs are resilient and don't take much care to survive. 

  

It makes sense to try. Very small variations across the yard - you never know. I've created my share of ornamentals, including a few that seemed productive until they got planted. If yours end up productive you'll really have somemthing special. 

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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28
September 19, 2023 - 5:20 pm

The Negronne has started to really pump them out, pretty much on schedule. The side yard Negronne, which gets much less sun, has just started ripening a few. That one seems a bit late but doubt it is weather pattern related; just more shade from other trees. 

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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29
September 21, 2023 - 7:40 pm

Since you are all on the edge of your seats looking for harvest updates:

We are projected to have multiple days of rain starting 9/23 and picking up on 9/24 (queue all thoughts about the accuracy of forecasts). Some figs are more affected by rain than others. 

The RdB is about done. The Hollier and Marseilles still have a decent amount left. The Marseilles figs do not do well after a rain, so what isn't ready in the next couple days will probably not be worth harvesting. The Hollier and RdB are not as affected, but suspect a week of rain is not going to do them wonders.

Negronnes are little affected, and the side yard Negronne will be ripening most of its figs in October anyways, so who knows. 

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jafar
770 Posts
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30
September 29, 2023 - 7:07 pm

Good news Quokka, the Brunswick you gave me ripened its first main crop fig, and some others are swelling.  It was split and bland compared to the breba, but I'll take it.

Also my LSU Tiger that I planted last year has one of its figs swollen and beginning to soften.

Do you have any figs that ripen before those?

Violette de Bordeaux are still small and hard.  At my old place its main crop have been ripening for a week maybe.  And Ram in Seattle says his VdB are really small this year and have also been ripening.

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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31
September 30, 2023 - 2:17 pm

jafar said
Good news Quokka, the Brunswick you gave me ripened its first main crop fig, and some others are swelling.  It was split and bland compared to the breba, but I'll take it.

Also my LSU Tiger that I planted last year has one of its figs swollen and beginning to soften.

Do you have any figs that ripen before those?

 

That's great Jafar. At least you got something! Surprised that the Tiger is ripening before the VdB, that seems backward.

Getting past summer figs (DK, Lat), if I were to recommend a fig for your place it would be the Hollier. In my yard it is about the same as the VdB for productivity, but starts producing about three weeks earlier. It has a different flavor profile (honey vs berry), and is not as flavorful when dried as VdB, but eaten fresh it gets strong reviews from those who get to try figs from my yard. 

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jafar
770 Posts
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32
September 30, 2023 - 2:53 pm

Sold.  Thank you for the recommendation.  I'll look into getting it.

Have you grown Stella?  I have one that's been in the ground for years and hasn't given me any ripe fruit.  It currently has a bunch of main crop of decent size but rock hard.  It may have produced a few breba before that I missed before they were too far gone.    It's one I've considered removing, but perhaps I'll plant a Hollier and also graft onto that Stella to see if I can get some fruit faster.

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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33
September 30, 2023 - 3:42 pm

jafar said

Have you grown Stella?  I have one that's been in the ground for years and hasn't given me any ripe fruit.  It currently has a bunch of main crop of decent size but rock hard.  It may have produced a few breba before that I missed before they were too far gone.    It's one I've considered removing, but perhaps I'll plant a Hollier and also graft onto that Stella to see if I can get some fruit faster.

  

It is a Dauphine - the "Stella" was a renaming by a certain nursery that has a track record of doing such things. Yes, I had a Dauphine. It was mildly productive, the figs were quite good, but not as good as Hollier, RdB, or Negronne/VdB. On a tree age equivalent basis, it was not as productive as any of those three. 

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jafar
770 Posts
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34
September 30, 2023 - 6:18 pm

Thank you.  I also see a claim that it is the same as Grantham's Royal.

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jafar
770 Posts
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35
October 14, 2023 - 2:18 pm

Surprisingly I'm getting good Violet de Bordeaux figs in October:

20231012_143444_HDR.jpg

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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36
October 14, 2023 - 3:47 pm

Those look great Jafar! Glad you are getting some.

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jafar
770 Posts
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37
October 14, 2023 - 5:20 pm

Aside from weather, I think spotted wing drosophila pressure may make a big difference.  Those and stink bugs didn't seem a big concern this year.  For the first time yellow jackets were a top nuisance.   

Codling moth and apple maggot not as bad as usual too.  Maybe because there were few apples last year?

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jafar
770 Posts
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38
October 15, 2023 - 1:37 pm

20231015_123513.jpgGot my first main crop fig from the variety I bought as Stella.  I hadn't looked at it in several days.  They got way bigger.  Not bad.

Seems portrait images get rotated to landscape upon upload.  I know folks have had issue before with that.

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sweepbjames
NE Portland, OR Cully Neighborhood
233 Posts
(Offline)
39
October 16, 2023 - 7:54 pm

jafar said
Seems portrait images get rotated to landscape upon upload.  I know folks have had issue before with that.

Last I tried, with apple branded  portable devices, I found rotating thE picture from the edit functions in the photo library... 360 degrees, before locating it for the upload somehow made it top side up in the preview and the transmitted posting.             I think on the computer I dragged the photo to the desktop  then did the edit rotation on that copy. seemed easier to locate for the upload. 

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jafar
770 Posts
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40
October 17, 2023 - 5:17 am

figcrop.jpg

 

You opened the image, rotated it completely back to same orientation, saved it, and then uploaded that and it kept it portrait?  Saving the image after rotating didn't seem to help for me.  It seems that whatever side of the image is longest will be horizontal.  I cropped this in the original orientation so that it is wider than tall, and it kept the orientation on upload.

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