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the root of all evil
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quokka
Corvallis
143 Posts
(Offline)
1
July 23, 2017 - 7:13 pm

St. Julien. For even after the tree has been wrenched from the ground, it is undead. It's offspring are legion and for the unwise orchardist who introduced this evil into their soil, the days will spent trying to eliminate this evil infestation. A pox on those who propagate this scourge! 

 

That is all.

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John S
PDX OR
2549 Posts
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2
July 28, 2017 - 7:39 pm

I'm not really having that problem. It is possible that you accidentally acquired a zombie St. Julien cultivar, in which case garlic and silver daggers through the heart won't work either.

John S
PDX OR

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DanielW
Clark County, WA
519 Posts
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3
September 12, 2017 - 8:44 am

If I could, I would send you some deer.  They destroy all young fruit trees and rootstocks in their path.  As Judy Dench said in the movie "The Chronicles of Riddick" In normal times, evil would be fought by good.  But in times like these, well, it should be fought with another kind of evil."

 

The challenge will be getting the deer into your car.  And of course, I won't be wanting them back.

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Viron
1400 Posts
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4
September 12, 2017 - 10:23 am

...ya know, regarding the St. Julien shoots..  They can be grafted to!  

I once missed a few while mowing a small field of fruit trees.  One, as persistent as any.. was located right where ‘another tree should/ could be.’  So why not Smile   

Fenced from the government goats.. two years later I loaded it up with the best of my Oriental Plums.  Some of my last & finest work, and of course (caged, pruned & trained) - it took off!  ...and so did I..   

Roots suckers on their own - or far enough from the parent tree ..are like trees in waiting Laugh

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jafar
582 Posts
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5
September 12, 2017 - 10:50 am

And according to the late Lon Rombough, it makes a good plum in its own right.

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quokka
Corvallis
143 Posts
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6
September 19, 2017 - 7:35 pm

DanielW said
If I could, I would send you some deer.  They destroy all young fruit trees and rootstocks in their path.  As Judy Dench said in the movie "The Chronicles of Riddick" In normal times, evil would be fought by good.  But in times like these, well, it should be fought with another kind of evil."

 

The challenge will be getting the deer into your car.  And of course, I won't be wanting them back.  

 

Unfortunately Bambi has been happy to strip the trees, but has done nothing about the plague of suckers. If I could catch Bambi, I would be happy to send you select cuts, wrapped in good butcher paper. 

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
647 Posts
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7
January 31, 2020 - 1:01 pm

quokka said
St. Julien. For even after the tree has been wrenched from the ground, it is undead. It's offspring are legion and for the unwise orchardist who introduced this evil into their soil, the days will spent trying to eliminate this evil infestation. A pox on those who propagate this scourge! 
 

Julien-A.JPG

St. Julien-A, a "picture proof" of last Wednesday from Purvis Nursery (Purvis shown in background) in Idaho of exactly what you say. None of the other rootstocks such as hybrid Krymsk-1, hybrid Krymsk-86, myrobalan plum, and nemaguard peach roots have this. ...of same (site weedy issues) everywhere else on his property that are specific to St. julien-A only.

With the advent of tissue culture propagation after around the 1980s it is no longer an important thing to carry old style easier to root cutting propagation selections such as this one.

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davem
301 Posts
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8
January 31, 2020 - 3:34 pm

I have some wild rabbits who would probably be happy to help you. And they would fit in your car. 

I have actually kind of come to terms with my rabbits.  Whenever I plant a tender plant, I put a mesh "cage" around it until it is big enough to be unattractive to the rabbits  (which took many years for me to learn).  In return the rabbits mow and fertilize all my grass and tender weeds, except right near the house.  I leave my pruned branches on the ground which they love. I suspect that their numbers are kept in check by hawks and coyotes.  And our dog loves to chase them and eat their droppings...?

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
647 Posts
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January 31, 2020 - 5:32 pm

Davem: It's not me in the background it's Robert Purvis, who has to make use of cats in order to control small gophers that must be very difficult to net out somehow because gophers tunnel. I was the one "taking" the picture.

It's fun to see everybody's point. Recycling is kinda cool too if it's legal to butcher a dog killed rabbit now and then. My initial thought in the form of a warning is too make good choices in where to buy (and properly discouraging nurseries selling plum trees on st julien) because choices dictate the kind of maintenance required.

If Mr. Purvis was into raising rabbits then I would recommend not choosing the kinds of rabbits native to yours and my area, as these cottontails are true rabbits that I think tunnel the way regular farmed rabbits do. The wild snowshoe rabbits would be just right for him because they are not rabbits, they are hares which do not tunnel. The distinction between hares (such as the snowshoe rabbit) and rabbits is that hares give birth to lively newborns with hair and seeing eyes that are ready to follow mother that do not need the protction of a nest in the ground the way true rabbits do.

Snowshoe rabbits (are hares) are almost in a natural population range here and are more common in Vancouver BC closer to the interior than here in Vancouver WA. Reason being is they change white come winters and they are controlled by raptors etc.

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davem
301 Posts
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10
February 1, 2020 - 2:27 pm

As i said, the rabbits appreciate it when I prune...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/BSnx.....piu6SYXj59

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
373 Posts
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11
February 2, 2020 - 6:07 pm

WOW!!!

I've been largely offline for the last few months and, now, when I check in... I feel like I'm quite displaced from reality... right down to a reference to the Chronicles of Riddick!  [Good flick.]

I'm still a bit confused about the overall thread of these older posts, but if it's about rootstocks that run and become unmanageable then I'd have to mention my current predicament with Prunus 'Marianna 2624', used for producing semi-dwarf plums.  I've mentioned them before, given that the very few fruits produced are incredibly yummy -- almost like a reasonably good Japanese plum.  However, at the moment, I am looking at an ever-increasing number of root-shoots that threaten to produce a woody thicket comparable to the woody damson plum thicket that was on our property when we bought it 20-21 years ago.

I've almost come to think that Prunus rootstocks that are used for dwarfing of what's grafted onto them (scion) haven't much of a choice but to perpetuate themselves ("self-preservation") via root-sprouts....  Could such be the case?...  A biological imbalance rectified by self-preservational force?

As for the rabbits...  As near as I can tell regarding our local rabbits here in Lewis County WA, I'm of the impression that they may not be native, and may be early-introduced Sylvilagus floridanus of the eastern U.S.  I'm not a mammalogist so I don't know, but I'm also not a hunter, so I haven't shot one to assess it morphologically.  But, to bring the thread back:...   Our local rabbits enjoy eating some of the bark off the bases of the Marianna shoots during the wintertime and in the process girdle some -- especially the ones that I'm thinking of digging-up to use for grafting.  That used to "tick me off", but, now in my search for a peaceable kingdom I talk to them and I've trained our dog not to chase them and to just let them be.  I, too, now accept them and enjoy their company.  They'll come to within 6-8 feet of me and I just talk to them.  The state of the planet is thoroughly off-kilter.  I can't change it, and so now it's just about getting along.

Reinettes (Tim).

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davem
301 Posts
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12
February 2, 2020 - 8:35 pm

As for the rabbits...  As near as I can tell regarding our local rabbits here in Lewis County WA, I'm of the impression that they may not be native, and may be early-introduced Sylvilagus floridanus of the eastern U.S.  

Yes, I'm pretty sure that every rabbit I have seen is the non-native Sylvilagus floridanus.  Until I searched just now I didn't even know that there is also a native "Brush Rabbit", Sylvilagus bachmani. Does anyone know where I might see a Sylvilagus bachmani?

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
647 Posts
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13
February 2, 2020 - 11:49 pm

The most common spot for finding the smaller of those two rabbits is prior to dusk at the spot indicated. I also became familiar looking up these. In my estimation they look to be about 50% the weight of the snowshoe hare, which would be proper for the original natives as mentioned @Reinettes and are likely the ones you are looking for (or already have in Camas?).

If you can use google maps then copy this point into maps and if it works it won't suprise me that I am correct. I have never seen the bigger introduced species within Washington anywhere.

84QVJCP9+XG

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
647 Posts
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14
February 9, 2020 - 11:42 am

Reinettes said
I've almost come to think that Prunus rootstocks that are used for dwarfing of what's grafted onto them (scion) haven't much of a choice but to perpetuate themselves ("self-preservation") via root-sprouts....  Could such be the case?...  A biological imbalance rectified by self-preservational force?

That portion of your commenting/questioning is of very good merit.

While at the above Purvis nursery and not yet having to mention the manchurian apricot rootstocks missing from my previous listed plum rootstocks, are the many apricot comparisons between his and mine (and that may answer your "self preservation" question).

Data: Mr. Purvis' orchard is currently 14 years old. Mr. Purvis sold me 2 'zard' apricot cultivars on manchurian apricot rootstocks (a cold hardy root of a species adapted for cold winter northern areas).

...The the same period of time (within ~1-2 years) Purvis used very many apricot trees, most of which have also been grafted on manchurian apricot roots just as I have with my 2.

...In Idaho all apricots subjects remained healthy due to location and proper spray, irrigation etc. ; but no rootsprouting occurred.

My two started having issues with rootsprouting as soon as my two were age 2. By the time 4 years had passed both were seriously effected by bacterial canker and the rootshoots problen had extended beyond the 2 foot proximity of the trunk.

Which would leave no doubt in my mind that it is possible for even any root to have sprouts, even possibly all the best noted Purvis exampled types under the rest of his plums but excluding St. Julien-A of course.

I also think it's a good point and one I'm glad you asked. It brings us again to look at the St. Julien issue again in the problem or ...root causes of it. I can't remember the HOS ever having this root at the exchanges every year but if they have that I sure hope they read this in order to note on the oder sheet [suckering to be expected]. After all my original and still living after 29 years " 'shiro' trees/st julien-a" combination is a huge mess that even my neighbors have complained to me concerning it. 🙁

I don't know why I remember all these details, for I am a bit strange I guess. My Shiro was purchased in 1993 from Tsagawa nurseries in Woodland WA on 'St. Julien-A' for sure and two years after my already long failed 1.5 year old apricot trees at the time.

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quokka
Corvallis
143 Posts
(Offline)
15
February 12, 2020 - 11:21 am

Reinettes said

I've almost come to think that Prunus rootstocks that are used for dwarfing of what's grafted onto them (scion) haven't much of a choice but to perpetuate themselves ("self-preservation") via root-sprouts....  Could such be the case?...  A biological imbalance rectified by self-preservational force?

 

Conceptually this seems reasonable, but...1) my single remaining plum, on Krymsk rootstock, has not sent out one sucker, and 2) a small nursery I spoke with said "never again" to The Root of All Evil and has not had the problem with M2624. 

And for all of you dying to know - in the past few months I have extracted a half dozen of the evil spawn. Their numbers and their rate of production is decreasing, but the price is eternal vigilance.

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John S
PDX OR
2549 Posts
(Offline)
16
February 19, 2020 - 6:09 pm

Also the price of freedom and democracy.

John S
PDX OR

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
373 Posts
(Offline)
17
February 23, 2020 - 3:01 pm

davem said
....I have actually kind of come to terms with my rabbits....  [T]he rabbits mow and fertilize all my grass and tender weeds, except right near the house....  ... I suspect that their numbers are kept in check by hawks and coyotes.  And our dog loves to chase them and eat their droppings...?  

davem,

This ain't exactly fruit or orchard talk, but our dog too sniffs around the yard and just LOVES ye wilde & natural "cocoa puffs"!  The dogues  must know something that we don't (-- and I'm happy to remain ignorant on this one).

With this year's mild winter and more "normalish" rainfall, our rabbits have done very well.  Based on past experience, I'm guessing that this next year will, consequently, be a banner year for coyotes.  Ah, nature....

Reinettes (Tim)

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quokka
Corvallis
143 Posts
(Offline)
18
September 4, 2022 - 7:38 am

quokka said
St. Julien. For even after the tree has been wrenched from the ground, it is undead. It's offspring are legion and for the unwise orchardist who introduced this evil into their soil, the days will spent trying to eliminate this evil infestation. A pox on those who propagate this scourge! 

 

That is all.

  

A reminder to those planning their winter additions. To this day (literally) my yard is plagued with this evil.

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jafar
582 Posts
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19
September 4, 2022 - 3:40 pm

@quokka they do get around, but I may still be in the honeymoon phase, enjoying the free rootstock.  If I can get my trees all tall enough to withstand deer browse, I'm hoping that the mower can mostly keep them in check.

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Dubyadee
Puyallup, Washington, USA
219 Posts
(Offline)
20
September 12, 2022 - 5:50 pm

I have a few nominees for evil plants:

- Quaking Aspen - these send out suckers 50’ in every direction and if planted near a garden or flower bed you’ll be fighting their spawn. Other poplars/cottonwoods are almost as bad. 
- Wisteria - this vine is best left for large estates with professional garden staff. Maybe select a clematis instead. 
- English Laurel - this coarse hedge is also best left for large estates with professional garden staff. Maybe select Portugal Laurel or Otto Luyken instead. 
- Vinca Major and Minor - these will overtake your flower bed. Maybe select sedum, stonecrop, and hostas. 

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