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Thanks Rooney
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John S
1020 Posts
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March 22, 2017 - 7:36 pm

 I found it finally. At first, I looked through the park, had to go to work.  I finally found it in the afternoon by the Coffee Rush. I think I may build an eave for it.
john S
PDX OR

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Rooney
466 Posts
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March 25, 2017 - 11:02 pm

You are welcome. It is actually interesting how your fully grown bush cherry is never grafted and can walk through two places from the bottom of the pot, to which I have saved some scions to graft to the 3/4" roots. In the end I can eventually give away all 5 pots and establish 10 new grafted trees minus pots.

individual-scion-exchanges/page-2/#p1534

Good luck!

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Rooney
466 Posts
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May 12, 2019 - 3:04 pm

The down the road Update  -The original bush cherries yours came from me from have since (for the last 12 years) been compared locally to other cherry tree orders of various cherry stocks, and the results and opinions I have are completed now.

I took in some clonal 'maxima-14' and 'f12/1' and 'schatten morelle' (2nd synonym. 'lutowka', 3rd syn. 'rose cherry') planted them, all still alive. I also (around then) brought in seedlings of 'Pontaleb cherry seed' from a line-up of prunus maheleb cherry rootstocks through what was then Lawyers nursery in Montana, and of course one side of my yard looks like a mess. The best news of all these cherry stocks is probably the Pontaleb which I pictured side by side results as indicated using the rootstock 'maxima-14' as kind of "a Control".

Same-Sour-Two.JPG

Both cultivars are the 'lutowka' and the left taken from the control and the right from a typical Pontaleb.

There was no notable differences between using any of the two cultivar rootstocks or between and seedling stocks of Pontaleb (ie. no variances between siblings). There were also no dying off occurring on any of the above but with 'lutowka' on it's own roots were the only exceptions. I had two and one died a couple years ago and then one this past winter and I have no voles and I don't spray. Neither have any of these ever produced root suckers with the exceptions of the death of an established 'lutowka' and the removal of a couple of established Pontaleb, but only from the basal point of attachment to the soil.

So the shining light in all this to me is the Pontaleb because of being a proven sweet and sour cherry compatible rootstock and in that they refined Pontaleb to produce the same size tree per semi-dwarfing habit of 'maxima-14', partly specific to link above or my retired Lawyers nursery brochure.

So John, you first: The Pontaleb has dropped many seeds around over the years. When they drop into garden pots or plats they germinate. They are easy to transplant and survive, at least in my well draining soil. I had over 100 and it's now down to a dozen because of the dry conditions so they are going. Since I have saved seeds in the past it is possible to have first -or any of the HOS administrators 2nd- these trees for more seed production in a short couple years. The advantage of replacing trees with seedlings is kind of the natural screening process for virus elimination. So first you, if you like, take my 12 new seedlings. Or I also saved some scions, and so far I'm virus free. The flower follows the sweet cherry bloom to help bees stay around but more likely the overlap with your ‘Carmine Jewel’ won’t be pollen compatible. (secondary note: fruits are small, too tangy for consumption)

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John S
1020 Posts
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May 17, 2019 - 9:01 pm

Wow-what a great offer.

I do play baseball on Sundays up your way.  I would like to get a few, but I don't need to be a hog and take all of them. 

I will call you one of these Sundays to see if you are around.

Thanks,
John S
PDX OR

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Rooney
466 Posts
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June 20, 2021 - 6:34 am

John:

Today is my last day here so I picked my 'carmine jewel' cherries. I thought you would like to try some out to see how they compare to those cherries you have like 'balaton'. I can also bring over the duke cherry I picked from elsewhere. I'm interested in comparing with yours because of my breeding but we should upload a picture of all three at once for here. It's kind of a last chance kind of, because I'm rarely in town this late in the year. 

??

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John S
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June 20, 2021 - 5:49 pm

I don't think I can get over there. I need to harvest some pie cherries today.

Thanks for the offer.
John S
PDX OR

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John S
1020 Posts
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June 20, 2021 - 9:14 pm

Thanks for sharing the cherries.

John S
PDX OR

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Rooney
466 Posts
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June 20, 2021 - 10:32 pm

We both gained so thanks for my being able to compare. For everybody else here's what we did at Johns. 

In each picture are left to right 4Bs then 4 Cs then 4 Ds intentionally orientated to simply stand for "B"alaton --> "C"armine Jewel --> "D"uke.
 
 

Hopefully this is also of value out there as well. taking into account flavor; as for myself my preferences are not yours, I liked the dukes as much as sweet cherry. I also like the carmine jewel as much as a frozen sweet cherry when the carmine jewels are frozen.

Also your balaton was about what I had expected as far as the slighter of productive compared to sweet cherries again. I have never seen a highly producing balaton like your other montmorency anyplace, but I have seen great production on these others once.

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DanielW
Clark County, WA
458 Posts
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August 2, 2021 - 11:19 am

Do I understand that there are bush cherries that grow in Maritime NW conditions?  In the past I tried Romeo or Juliet (I forget which) and Korean Bush Cherry.  They died from canker.

I have Montmorency and Surefire  which is all we can eat now.  And just planted a Meteor this year.  And sweet cherries,  So Im just curious.

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Rooney
466 Posts
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August 3, 2021 - 10:19 am

Curiosity is what makes you inventive (ie. one of us, smiles). Ken of Oikos nursery, similar to the university breeding program in Saskatchewan under Dr Bors, secured a reputation with an edible line of beach plums. What each of these have found in common between bush plum and bush cherry is they are best  marketed and propagated by forcing the roots or selling seeds. 

I am unsure under which means the bush cherry failures on your part are due to which method of propagating. It will depend probably on when and from who you bought them. I will say this that around 2007 I was under agreement with a tissue culture nursery near Saskatchewan. When they ('Carmine jewel', 'Crimson passion') were exported into Alaska many went wrong neither surviving Alaska or at home in Washington not even living through a single growing season or much beyond that. 

At this point in time the more intelligent information will come from those (Bors on bush cherry or Ken). This year Ken exchanged information with me so I think this common problem between "bush cherry"  -  "beach plum" are up to date. 

The remainder of what I have from my 2007 originals seem fussy in that they need to be grown in part shade or grown clumped together tightly. There is no initiation of roots all these years. Once they do I will hope that those can be tested for more health to stand alone by themselves in full sun or possibly more productive than the less-productive mother plant. 

As far as I know there has been no attempting yet to graft these bush cherry types onto prunus maheleb rootstocks which are usually doing well under similar species (the sour cherry) so I might be the first.

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Rooney
466 Posts
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August 3, 2021 - 3:07 pm

Sorry about inside the 2nd from last paragraph myself stating there is no initiation of roots all these years because that could be interpreted that these were short of having enough roots so I struck a line through it. 

Should state: there is no volunteers initiated from the existing roots.

To sum up what's intended here is that Ken is not able to sell a happy tree when grown the way other trees are normally sold per typical rooted cuttings taken from the mother plants such  as scions so sells a good beach plum (prunus maritima) by true to type seed or identical clones by figurng out a way to divide the roots and force them out from the ground up. 

His point sells very well from what I am seeing with bush cherry (prunus fruiticosa) so far.

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