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St. Baussan Apple Scions
Apple Scions
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JordanC_22
2 Posts
(Offline)
1
February 25, 2024 - 12:26 pm

Hello all, 

I am interested to know if anyone has any St. Baussan Apple trees that they would be willing to send scions?  I am doing graduate work on apple trees and will need rare English and French varieties?  Many thanks!

 

Jordan C

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
428 Posts
(Offline)
2
February 26, 2024 - 3:32 pm

Sir Jordan,

This is probably a good place to ask this question, but the membership is not as wide and international as it once was....  

I'm aware of a French cider apple called 'Saint Martin' [supposedly hard, aromatic, and very oxidizing], 'St. Cecilia' [dessert apple from Wales and reportedly somewhat sweet, firm, and moderately juicy], 'St. Anna Rode Boskoop' [a selection of the excellent Boskoop apple], and 'St. Edmunds Russet', a.k.a., 'St. Edmunds Pippin' [an outstanding russeted dessert apple from England], but I've never heard of a 'St. Baussan' apple, let alone the Saint him/herself.  I'm not catholic or orthodox, but there are more saints than even they can remember, so I got out my abridged 'Pocket Dictionary of Saints' by John J. Delaney.  ...No St. Baussan, I'm sad to say.

I'm curious as to the reference material that you have access to that would mention this particular apple.  I myself am interested in French and English varieties, but amid the references that I have I've never encountered mention of this variety.  I do know that, like so very many apple varieties of the past (--certainly including American varieties--), many, many have gone extinct because of the corporatization and internationalization of apple cultivation and commerce.

I wish you all the luck in the world finding 'St. Baussan' and, please, if you can find it let us know!  We're a curious bunch.

Reinettes.

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katmendeux
45 Posts
(Offline)
3
February 27, 2024 - 9:05 am

Hi,

The Bremerton fruit show is coming up in a couple weeks, and I could look for your St. Baussan there, if you like. I could send it to you, if you're in the US. Otherwise, we run into problems with customs.

Like Reinettes, I've never heard of this variety. But then again, I've never heard of hundreds of varieties. I looked in my files to see what I could find. I tracked it down to the Dominion test orchard in Agassiz BC in the 1890s. They had about 2,000 varieties in their orchard. Nothing since then, though, at least that I've found, here in the PNW. Finally found it at: Pomiferous/St. Baussan.

How did you hear about this apple? And if you have an "elevator-type" pitch of your grad work, we'd love to hear what you're working on.

Cheers, katmendeux, likes hearing about rare apples

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JordanC_22
2 Posts
(Offline)
4
February 27, 2024 - 1:39 pm

I heard of it on Pomiferous, and the UK's National Fruit Collection.  The UK has it to my understanding in their collection, but I'm not sure if we have it here in the US.  On Pomiferous it says there are several names it can also be identified by including the following: de Cour, Peupion, Reinette Fouettee, Rose de Coeur, Saint Bauzin, Saint Bauzon, Saint Louis, Thiriette, Vache.  

My graduate studies will be in Horticulture with my thesis and research being devoted to "The prosperity, success, and challenges of rare English and French Apple cultivars in the Mid-Atlantic states".  I have much work to do yet, I have not even started courses.  I need to grow my own trees before my research can begin.  

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davem
367 Posts
(Offline)
5
February 27, 2024 - 5:57 pm

I am interested to know if anyone has any St. Baussan Apple trees that they would be willing to send scions?  I am doing graduate work on apple trees and will need rare English and French varieties?  Many thanks!

I don't have that variety, but I do have the following which sound French to meKiss

  • Amere Forestier (oh shoot I have a note that it died)
  • Calville Rouge D'Automne
  • Court Pendu Plat
  • Florina
  • Frequin Audievre

And I think these are English:

  • Chisel Jersey
  • Cox's Orange Pippin
  • Dabinett
  • Kingston Black
  • Tydeman's Red
  • Wheeler's Golden Russet (Wheeler's Gold)
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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
428 Posts
(Offline)
6
February 29, 2024 - 4:16 pm

Jordan,

Glad to hear that you're getting an early start on the project before you've even started the coursework.  Wise plan!  I suspect you'll be growing apples on dwarfing rootstocks in order to get fertile material for study within a reasonable period of time?

Among the synonyms that you listed, the last one is 'Vache'.  It makes me wonder whether that might be 'Peau de Vache', which I acquired and lost years ago.  I had gotten it from the National Germplasm collection.  I (--somewhere--) have a book on French cider apples (in French) that I found very useful, but I also ran into the problem of regional synonyms.  Some apples I was able to correlate with a more recent name; others just sent me down a rabbit hole of confusion.  I never studied French, but I could extrapolate a lot from my poor Portuguese, Spanish, and Latin.

I suggest that you try "googling" for French books or lists on the subject.  I could be wrong, but I think the book title was "Pommes de Cidre".

I hope that the project doesn't become too difficult.  I'm rootin' for you all the way!

Reinettes.

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John S
PDX OR
2868 Posts
(Offline)
7
March 2, 2024 - 3:24 pm

"Vache" in French means cow, as in laughing cow cheese.  La vache qui rie. Sometimes that can help figuring out synonyms.

John S
PDX OR

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
428 Posts
(Offline)
8
March 4, 2024 - 7:28 pm

Jordan,

Against all odds, I was able to relocate my French cider book.  In order to compensate and try to offer you a more accurate reference than that of my feeble memory, the  information is as follows:

The book that I referenced:  TITLE, Pommiers a Cidre, Varietes de France.  AUTHORS, J.M. Bore & J. Fleckinger.  Published in Paris in 1997.

I purchased mine in December 2019 from Amazon, at the retail price of ca. $104, plus $8 plus in ....  Never mind.  I paid $112 bucks for the book.  Who knows what that cost may now be 5 years later.  It was advertised, and I ordered, a hardcover book.  However, I received a paperback.  At least I had the book.  It was based on research over many years in regard to the quality and utility of the countless traditional French cider apples that were available, and the book covers approximately 130 varieties that were deemed the best.  Each entry gets about 2 to 3 pages of descriptive coverage, and the majority have a color photograph of several mature specimens in question.

I do recommend it as an important reference in relation to your project.  God knows I've spent much of my past income over the decades in an effort to have valuable, useful,  reputable, and comprehensive material in order to educate myself.  If you're interested in a subject, try to get the best references that you can.  It pays off ultimately.  

All best wishes,

Reinettes.

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Chris M
Philomath, OR
167 Posts
(Offline)
9
March 5, 2024 - 4:35 pm

Just out of curiosity(that and I am a book hoarder) I  checked the price on amazon. Its up to 115.50, free! shipping through.

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katmendeux
45 Posts
(Offline)
10
March 7, 2024 - 8:59 am

Hi Reinettes,

Like Chris, I looked it up on Amazon, and it looks like a beautiful book. It's huge -- close to 800 pages? With pictures, too? Wow. It's a keeper. 

kat

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Chris M
Philomath, OR
167 Posts
(Offline)
11
March 7, 2024 - 4:27 pm

I wish I read French so bad. Not just for this, it looks like a cool book.

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
428 Posts
(Offline)
12
March 7, 2024 - 10:32 pm

Oh my friends,

Let me start off by warning anyone and everyone away from being or becoming a hoarder!  I'm a hoarder, and I married a hoarder!  Now in our 60s, we're having trouble just being able to find paths through our household.  However, I stand by my insistence that one seek quality, accurate, reliable references in your subjects of interest, and be willing to pay for them.  (--And people wonder why I live like a pauper--....]

French.  I coulda taken it in High School:  Wasn't interested.  College:  preferred Latin, and, living in southern California at the time figured that it'd be good to take Spanish.  Subsequently I have more and more regretted the fact that I didn't study French!  After all, in Thomas Jefferson's time it was the international language, and so very much of our bastard "English" language arose from French after the Norman conquest of England in 1066 A.D.

Hey!  Look folks:  Reinettes off topic AGAIN!

My apologies.... Smile

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