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Spring grafting is upon us
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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
1
March 19, 2023 - 9:44 pm

The quince are already leafing out, the daffodils are in bloom, the crocus are probably more than half over.  I'm going to need to graft onto my quince so I can get that done and get ready for the other species.  Thanks Rooney for mentioning that Asian pear can be grafted to quince. I think I will try that for the first time this year.

John S
PDX OR

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
2
April 1, 2023 - 9:35 pm

I've grafted pear onto quince on trees that are already pear on quince. The quince was leafed out.

I also grafted Asian pear onto quince, a few times. 

Mostly, I've been motivated to graft things that have already leafed out.   Cherries and plums aren't there yet in my yard. Apples are far away too.

I haven't grafted onto pear yet, because in my yard, it's not leafed out yet.

John S
PDX OR

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JohannsGarden
15 Posts
(Offline)
3
April 2, 2023 - 3:25 pm

Remind us, which quince varieties are you using?  Are they standard rootstock quince selections or cultivars selected for fruit which you are just getting double duty out of by using them as rootstock?

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
4
April 4, 2023 - 9:37 am

OGW's Crimea. When I prune it, I put the cuttings in the ground and they nearly all grow. 

With this exceptionally wet weather, I've been having to repaint my grafts with the grafting compound. I'm not too worried about them drying out between. It's been so cold that I haven't needed to get running on the cherries or plums yet. 

John S
PDX OR

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
778 Posts
(Offline)
5
April 4, 2023 - 10:19 pm

John: If I remember correctly from other posts, you take quince and root them? 

Recently while visting sweepbjames I learned that he's taken prunus ume cuttings around January when he learned they root. Ume or mume is more related to domestic apricots which are reportedly hard to root from. Since what ever ume cultivar James has roots easy this makes for an easier way of propagating rootstocks for apricots. 

Anyways, we used apricot pollen on 5 ume flowers that day. The cross seems ideal to me because ume flowers are a bit more firmly attached than all apricot flowers I have ever seen. Ume flowers are also more firmly attached than my 'zard' sweet pit apricot species but I didn't cross that way. I chanced trying pollen from 'halls hardy almond' the last couple of days. 

I bought a case of 8 by 18 inch produce bags from chefs warehouse. I think it's going to be useful bagging up the grafts that I plan on doing tomorrow to dodge the rain and warm up the grafts more. What I don't use I hopefully use gathering and sacking fruit later on.

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
778 Posts
(Offline)
6
April 5, 2023 - 1:15 pm

Jafar: The opal plum you requested around January 14th came in the mail for grafting. I issued you a PM. Don't forget to include the method of delivery and all those kinds of details.

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jafar
770 Posts
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7
April 12, 2023 - 8:36 pm

Thanks for delivering.

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
778 Posts
(Offline)
8
April 13, 2023 - 2:32 am

It was my pleasure.

Like I told you, I experiment grafting all kinds of things that can't be expected to work. So the weirdest combination that I first ran into was 'adara' plum success on chokecherry, then years later certain other species of plum also worked. In most cases they won't last more than several years. The ones that do more have fruited. So the assumption is that most plums make clean grafts in the cambium cells (upwards connected growth) but problems arise in the layer of phloem (restricted downwards). 

With that new found knowledge I selected prunus padus as the chokecherry that roots the best as a species in order to accomplish another trial of grafting plums that I want to propagate on their own roots by initiating the grafting to padus as the first step. Then the next year the cut is made below the graft as a transplant with the union below the ground. 

I know I didn't tell you about this last step of transplanting for the purposes of getting plums on their own roots. I guess I would have if I had completed it, but I have not, I am just about to do it this year while in Alaska. I had tested the padus for rooting and that is always successful. My air-layering of plums are well practiced as well. So I expect this should work all the way. 

I forgot if I had mentioned the Alaska beaver problem and the need to buy an electric fence from Wilco down here to tackle that issue. I liked the ideas you shared on how to keep rodents from chewing your trees in the winter. "Just spread all your apple prunings on the ground so they go there first." (/unquote) 

By the looks of things your wild rabbits really are going after stripping the surface areas of your excess prunings that you leave around. It should work for Alaska voles but beavers hibernate so I still need the active season approach of electric fencing. 

Anyways thanks for the pollen of hybrid 'splash' and 'early laxton' scions for my chokecherry rootstock production experiment!

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Chris M
Philomath, OR
147 Posts
(Offline)
9
April 13, 2023 - 3:56 pm

Well the apples are starting to show signs of activity, on the other hand it SNOWED here on Tuesday.

 

Chris in Philomath

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
10
April 20, 2023 - 10:48 am

Don't use old rubber bands for whip and tongue grafting.  I've had 3 break this year.  The graft is worth way more than the rubber band. I'm at least as cheap as the next guy, but at some point, it's not worth it.

John S
PDX OR

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jafar
770 Posts
(Offline)
11
April 20, 2023 - 8:33 pm

I'm still using grafting rubbers from more than 15 years ago 🙂  

Eventually I may get burned. 

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
12
April 23, 2023 - 8:04 am

Maybe if you are one of those people who can whip and tongue graft so precisely that you can't see through it, and I think you are.  Mine aren't that precise and I have to wrap pretty tightly to hold them together, putting more pressure on the rubber band. 

 

John S
PDX OR

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
13
April 24, 2023 - 7:28 pm

Traditionally, I only graft onto dormant scions that I cut many months ago.  A couple of weeks ago, I didn't have enough Asian pear scions, so I cut a fresh one from the tree and grafted it the same day.  It seems to be taking.  I thought about doing that with cherries, but they are fully leafed out and flowering, which makes it seem even less likely.  It can work sometimes.

John S
PDX OR

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
14
May 3, 2023 - 4:25 pm

Jafar- I was just thinking of something.  I used to use those wide rubber bands that you could get at Oregon Bag Company in Canby. I haven't had access to those in years. I think they required you to buy like 1,000 of them at a time. So I've been buying the thinner ones from Office Depot. They're not as wide or as good. They are cheap, available, and I can ride my bike to Office Depot.   I would be amazed if you could still use #64 rubber bands 15 years later.  Where can you buy the big wide rubber bands?

John S
PDX OR

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Chris M
Philomath, OR
147 Posts
(Offline)
15
May 3, 2023 - 8:43 pm

John I would try something called Ranger bands.  They were originally used by the army ranger for gear, but now by hikers and others use them. I have not used them for grafting. They are wide and rubber so should work. You can buy for not much money from various sources in quantities as little as ten bands. The widths can be all the same or vary. Here are a few examples.

 

51M5iTkzI0L._AC_SL1000_.jpg51f9xEK2DUL._AC_SL1038_.jpg

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jafar
770 Posts
(Offline)
16
May 3, 2023 - 8:51 pm

Mine still work great for whip and tongue, but I did break a couple using them to secure bark grafts.  They were maybe less than 2" diameter "trunk" and short scions with buds in the portion inserted in the bark.  I didn't want to put electrical tape over, but since I couldn't cover the whole area with one rubber, I was stretching them really tight.

Fedco has 1/4 lb of 8" grafting rubbers for $12.  I didn't look at shipping charge:

https://fedcoseeds.com/ogs/8-r.....trips-8982

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
17
May 4, 2023 - 10:09 pm

I like people getting the info out there. You never know what is going to be the right solution for someone else.  If the Fedco ones are only 1/4" wide, I"ll probably stick with riding my bike over to office Depot. The ranger bands are intriguing Chris.  I'll look those up.

John S
PDX OR

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rivendell_pnw
6 Posts
(Offline)
18
May 5, 2023 - 10:08 am

For whip and tongue I use a good wrapping with one piece of Buddy tape.  It like parafilm but thinner and easier to use and perforated so it gives you the right amount. Available online a few places, especially bonsai supply stores, one roll will last many years.  If I need it to be tighter I use colored flagging tape, tie below the graft, wrap over the buddy tape then tie it on right at the union for a good cinch. Flagging tape is also nice so you can mark all of this years grafts with one color so you can come back to them to check on them.  In my tree with 40+ varieties that is helpful!  

For small clefts I will use one wrap of buddy tape, then another wrap over the stock with electrical tape.  A little grafting seal if needed. 

Any larger clefts or bark grafts I will still wrap the outside of the stock with electrical tape and seal the whole area with grafting seal.  

Morgan

Canby

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
19
May 5, 2023 - 8:35 pm

I found out that the Ranger bands are just slices of bicycle inner tube. I use that in hang gliding, but I don't think I'll graft with it.  I'll even use it to train a branch to a better angle. I found some of my old thicker rubber bands. I think they are # 84, so I may order some now, so I'll have some for next year. I'm mostly done with whip and tongue, except for persimmon and hawthorn.

John S
PDX OR

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sweepbjames
NE Portland, OR Cully Neighborhood
233 Posts
(Offline)
20
May 8, 2023 - 12:05 pm

I've used strips of trash diverted bicycle inner tubes for holding tension on top working cleft grafts and similar top-side grafting, to surround the larger dimension of the stock. Of course like electrical tape, that green stretchy florist tape and the like, you're going to have return to slice the binding free and not unwrap,  some time after the graft has taken, so as to not girdle or rip bark from the cambium.

If you just have a couple grafts to make there's a lot of stuff that could work. Heck even flagging tape, it stretches, can hold tension. My first few grafts at home were accomplished with florist tape. Ive seen illustrations of string bound grafts from earlier times.

I do prefer grafting bands though; and parafilm the degradable kinds, just incase I'm not diligent in returning to the scene in a timely fashion.       

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
21
May 8, 2023 - 7:06 pm

I noticed that the slugs have really gotten active the past week or so. They had climbed upon and eaten one of my grafts.  I put my old fruit sox below and around the stems of my grafts to warn them off.  Hopefully, the one that got eaten will grow back.  They have really come up in the last few days.  I find the spring to be the worst time for slugs. It warms up, but it's still wet, and the new green growth is enticing for them.

John S
PDX OR

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
22
May 9, 2023 - 6:50 pm

The #84 rubber bands are so much wider and better than what you can get now in the stores.  I have been grafting with them with past couple of days. I can't imagine them breaking like the #95 ones have this year.  I have also been gathering fungally killed branches for the compost tea, which I will start within the week.

John S
PDX OR

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Chris M
Philomath, OR
147 Posts
(Offline)
23
May 9, 2023 - 6:53 pm

Amazon has #84, not sure if this is a good price. I have never bought them before.

qid=1683683519&sr=8-1-spons&smid=A3DFU101R039TQ&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExQTQ0SzZYMDI4Qkw1JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTAxODMyVERKNDkwNklLRVBaJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0NDAzMzYzRjRINE03VVBWTzUyJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
24
May 11, 2023 - 4:39 pm

Thanks cmullin. The only reason I would use #95 in the future is with really small scions.  You can break them or just not bind them well with a big, fat rubber band.

John S
PDX OR

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
25
May 11, 2023 - 4:40 pm

This isn't grafting, but I just spied my first asparagus spear.  My son actually said the correct answer when I asked him which was more exciting-asparagus spears or Britney Spears.

John S
PDX OR

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
26
May 12, 2023 - 9:01 pm

Sorry, I just realized that the skinnier rubber bands I bought at Office Depot were #64, not #95, as I said.  They are really only good for very small scions.

John S
PDX OR

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