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spraying fruit trees
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lovedirtynails
9 Posts
(Offline)
1
February 6, 2010 - 7:34 am

Hi there,

I had so many coddling moths and worms on my apples last year, I have decided to break down and use sprays this year. I had no pests on my asian pears - maybe because I used socks. I still had earwigs, tho. Yuck! I also had a great plum year last year. Didn't everybody? My new apricot tree had ONE fruit on it! It was great!

I want to try Neem oil, but seem to remember that you need to add sulfur/lime for seeded fruits, and copper for pitted fruits. Is that correct? If so, when do I spray? And how often? Is th ere a list of what fruit trees should be sprayed and with what? And when? That would be so helpful!

Thanks for you help!

anne

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PlumFun
495 Posts
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2
February 6, 2010 - 8:59 am

Here is an interesting topic {ziploc bags} related to codling moths that might be new to you. LINK

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fritz
8 Posts
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3
February 6, 2010 - 11:59 am

Over the last 10 years I think I have figured out how to beat coddling moths back organically on apples. If you have a high population, it is more difficult, but here is what worked for me.

First, learn about their life cycle. You can track degree days yourself, but here is a nifty on-line tool:

http://uspest.org/cgi-bin/ddmodel.pl?sp ... av=1&ipc=1

This link is for my location - replace Moscow and Pullman with your location and bookmark. Basically, you really only need to know when the first generation begins to hatch ("biofix" date), then keep up your spray coverage until fall. It takes a little thought to figure the interface out, but it is not bad. You should get a pheromone trap to monitor - hang the trap at bloom. After you enter your location and bookmark it will remember your location, but you will have to enter the biofix date each time. If all that seems to much, just start your coverage shortly after you get a significant number of moths in your traps. (You could try to trap them out too, hanging a couple traps per tree - but I just monitor with traps.)

I have used Neem and Surround with only moderate success. If you get your population down enough, after a few years you might be able to get away with Neem only, but it is not the most effective against coddling moth. Plus you have to be careful not to burn your trees with concentrations that are too high or poorly mixed spray (it is not terribly easy to get a good Neem emulsion!). You do NOT want to mix Neem oil with sulfur - mixing any oil with sulfur is likely to result in phytotoxicity (burning). There should be at least a 3 week separation between the two. So if you are using sulfur for summer fungus or scab or powdery mildew, no Neem.

Two organic solutions work well for me: Spinosad, and Coddling Moth Virus. Both can be mixed with molasses to increase the chance of ingestion. The larvae only spend a day or three between egg and getting in the fruit, and once they are inside there is nothing you can do. I get both of these from Peaceful Valley Farm Supply. Some say moths build resistance to spinosad, but I haven't seen it. You can alternate between spinosad and the virus.

Here are some direct links:

http://www.groworganic.com/item_PIT103_ ... Pack_.html

http://www.groworganic.com/item_PBI805_ ... ntrat.html

http://www.groworganic.com/item_PBI650_ ... 15_oz.html

Of course if you only have a few trees, socks are supposed to work well.

Fritz

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lovedirtynails
9 Posts
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4
February 6, 2010 - 2:23 pm

thanks so much for your reply. What an education! I tried socks last year, as I think I mentioned, but had no success. I will try your method. We only have a few apple trees, so I'm game.

Thanks again!

anne

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John S
PDX OR
2955 Posts
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5
February 6, 2010 - 6:13 pm

footie/socks and ziploc bags both worked for me last year. From nearly all worm infested to almost none. Thanks for the great timing tool. That should help with getting close to 100% Paper bags did not. I am going to try ziplocs and footies with Surround TM this year.
John S
PDX OR

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fritz
8 Posts
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6
February 7, 2010 - 6:49 am

Re-reading my post I realized it was not that clear about moth emergence and larvae hatch - hard to concentrate when also watching my 1.5 yo girl tear around.

Biofix is when the overwintering moths first emerge. I use the day that five moths are counted in the trap.

After this, it takes about 250 degree days for the new eggs to start to hatch. They don't hatch all at once, but start slow, build to a peak, and taper off. By the time the first generation hatch is over, the second is about to begin, so really you only need to know when it starts and keep up your spray coverage. Use the on-line tool, or just start spraying 2-3 weeks after biofix. Depending on the weather, you will have to spray every 10 days or so until fall. You will need a gallon of spray or less (maybe 1/2 gallon with a fine mist) for a few trees - get the undersides of the leaves. The virus specifically targets coddling moths so there is no danger of you getting sick from it.

It's really pretty fun to get these critters figured out!

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PlumFun
495 Posts
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7
February 7, 2010 - 8:20 am

Hi Fritz,

I am curious. How do you thin apple fruits? Do your trees go into alternate year bearing?

I bet the guys with 1000 trees don't do much hand thinning! How many trees do you spray all summer long? And how large are they?

If I leave too many on my trees they go into alternate year bearing. If I hand-thin, I get nice crops most every year.

So I end up hand thinning my apples about the third week of May. Leaving the very best looking only. And since I am standing right there with a pocket full of altered ziploc's, I snug one of them on that "best apple" and am done with it for the entire season.

Bag is 2 cents or so, reusable for perhaps 3 seasons. Only costs a little time to thin and bag, but doesn't all your sprays require time and materials all through the summer?

Also seems like the cheaper the bag, the better they work. Ziploc brand are difficult to work with. Off brands are made of much thinner plastic and are much more cooperative towards this end!

PS: I don't bother bagging my Macintosh. The stems are too short and do not lend themselves well to bagging. And they are not a good keeper apple anyway, so I do have some codling in those. But not all. They are good in season and then they are gone.

If I had a thousand trees of Mac, I bet I would be looking for a good way to control codling! But I just have one small one.

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fritz
8 Posts
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8
February 7, 2010 - 3:51 pm

I have about 25 apple trees, from just-planted to maybe 50 yrs? Most are semi-dwarf, but one Granny Smith might be standard. 10 years ago we bought a place with a variety of neglected trees, and thus the hobby started. Only 3 mature trees tend to bear every other year (Winesaps I think, though not sure as I didn't plant them), but through pruning and hand thinning I have brought them back to bear every year. I don't hand thin them all, and don't think I could find the time to squeeze all that thinning between bloom and hatch, so I concentrate on a few. Some trees just produce fruit every year no matter what - the Granny in particular is super productive, but I'll lose every fruit to moths if I don't do anything. This year I am toying around with the idea of spray thinning, leaning towards salt solution, but don't look forward to turning everything brown. Hand thinning is really tedious to me.

It only takes about 45 min to an hour to spray them all, walking, quite an enjoyable task every week or two. I guess I would not like to put 1000s (?) of plastic bags on the trees, if no other reason than they are plastic. It certainly isn't about cost; not that I don't care at all about cost, but half (ok, more than that) the fun for me is in the experimentation/learning. I have tried other things to control moths too, none too cheap, including confusion lures (making an artificially large block that extended well past my somewhat dispersed orchard) and Trichogramma wasps. Teaching myself to graft has been fun too, and I am in the process of re-working some red delicious trees not planted by me.

Also, I am foolish enough to think that someday I'll plant at least a few hundred trees and sell locally - there would be a good demand here I think for local organic heirloom apples - so all this work might be put to good (?) use. Actually last year I did sell some apples to the local co-op; I certainly can't use all the fruit these trees can produce myself! I have the land, and my wife has already said she would give up the front horse pasture. a south-facing hillside.

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PlumFun
495 Posts
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9
February 7, 2010 - 4:42 pm

You're wife is a saint!

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lovedirtynails
9 Posts
(Offline)
10
March 24, 2010 - 8:01 am

Does anyone know where I can buy the Cyd-x insecticidal virus locally (Portland)? Has anyone sprayed yet? Also, last year I had bad mildew (guess there's no "good" mildew) on my apple tree.... what should I use to get rid of that, and when should I spray? I sure don't want to hurt any of the mason bees buzzing around right now.

thanks

anne

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John S
PDX OR
2955 Posts
(Offline)
11
March 24, 2010 - 10:45 pm

My favorite method for avoiding mildew is pruning.
John S
PDX OR

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beediverse
7 Posts
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12
March 26, 2010 - 9:40 pm

Hi- to minimize the effect of any spraying that must be done- do it when bees are not flying. Often we dont know if these sprays are 'completely' safe for our beneficials.

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lovedirtynails
9 Posts
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13
March 27, 2010 - 8:26 pm

thanks john s and beediverse

I called the OSU extension service and they said to use neem 10 days after full petal... which I guess means 10 days from when blossoms first open. what do you think of that?

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pbeno
3 Posts
(Offline)
14
March 31, 2010 - 7:32 pm

I've got 3 apple and 4 pear trees here in NE Portland that I have been growing for about 12 years. I have had success without spraying insecticides on my trees. I use Japanese apple bags. They're the ones with with paper on the outside and a kind of waxy paper on the inside. People question the labor intensity of this practice but I quite enjoy spending several June evenings in the trees bagging fruit. It goes pretty fast once you get the hang of it. I also thin the fruit while I'm in there. The nicest part is that once the bag is on, you don't need to do anything more until harvest.

I get several seasons out of each bag. Wasps come and harvest the pulpy outer paper on the bags some years, making striped furrows in the bag and decreasing its' longevity. I have tried paper bags and plastic bags in past years. I think the Japanese apple bags are easier to put on and keep the critters out better.

Last summer was particularly bad for coddling moths. In many cases they bore right through the bags. The majority of my crop was without damage though. The moths seem to cycle and get real bad every 3-4 years. I'm hoping last year was a peak.

I still have to spray sulfur a few times in our warm and wet months of May and June.

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John S
PDX OR
2955 Posts
(Offline)
15
August 10, 2024 - 8:05 am

I have only used Neem oil a couple of times, but it seems like a good idea. No toxicity to your fruit or garden.

John S
PDX OR

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Chris M
Philomath, OR
181 Posts
(Offline)
16
August 10, 2024 - 10:30 am

I have used neem oil on perennial vegetables, particularly artichokes with very good results. I have not used it on fruit trees. 

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