I just ate my first persimmon of the year. It was an H-118 American Persimmon, marketed as Prairie something by one Green WOrld. Very tasty and about the normal time to start getting my American persimmons. I didn't have many persimmons this year. My Szukis mostly male died suddenly. I suspect my neighbor shot some Roundup over the fence. She threatened to do that to another neighbor. She is a very difficult person.
I am thinking of buying some scion for Szukis and grafting another tree. I'm also thinking about H63a, but we'll see.
John S
PDX OR
Sorry to hear about your tree. That's unconscionable. We got our first H118 Prairie Star several days ago. I picked it just translucent and then waited a couple of days to eat it. No others have turned translucent since, but I expect we'll get more by the weekend. This is looking like a good crop.
Looks like I'll have a first crop of Saijo on d.Lotus, three years in since the ugly grafting contest posting if I remember correctly. Exciting for me. probably about a month out. Just starting to see some yellowing on a few.
John, that sucks. Sorry to hear it.
Both Giboshi and Saijo are starting to get some yellow on a few. Here that will mean a few might be harvested in a month or so. That assumes the squirrels don't break every branch - getting a lot of squirrel damage this year.
I think that Saijo is a really good tasting persimmon. If I were going to grow Asian persimmons, that's one that I would grow. I think they are at their best when almost liquid. Don't invite over a prissy upper class grandma in expensive clothes to eat one.
Every time I hear the name, "Saijo", I think of this 70's soul classic. It sounds like it's by the Stylistics, but it's by a one-hit wonder called Blue Magic. Check out the suits and the dance moves!
John S
PDX OR
My favorite is still Nikitas Gift, although it ripens very late.
This fall Im doing some editing of my orchard. I cant take care of everything and a lot were just "I wonder how this will do?". My American Persimmons - Yates and Prairie-something - have just never produced enough to matter, and are too small. The flavor is very good. But I'm removing them. Also, my Saijo on D. lotus has always been sickly and barely produces. It's going too.
I'm keeping the Nikitas gift. They are very tasty. Off in a far corner of the yard are Chocolate and Coffee Cake. They took a long time to establish and grow stronger. This year both have their first fruits. I'm interested in how they will taste. They are pollination variant so that might be a factor.
One thing that I really noticed this year is about pollination. Since my Szukis mostly male American persimmon died/was murdered?, the number of fruit among all my trees that set has plummeted. I've only had 3 this year, compared to maybe 20 or 30 by this time last year. The fruit have no seeds, as opposed to many seeds last year, and all of the previous years. Experts have said that having seeds is correlated with having larger and better quality fruits among the American persimmons.
I think I'm going to buy some scions this year of Szukis and try to graft another tree. In his early research, Claypool noted how big of an effect the quality of the male had on the ultimate quality of the persimmons. That's why I bought Szukis originally, and that's why I'm going to get another one now.
John S
PDX OR
That is a valuable anecdote. My H 118 is setting more fruit than my other trees, even without the mostly male Szukis as a pollinator. But it has 5 persimmons. The Garretsons have one. The young Yates has none. The Early Golden has 2. None have seeds.
That's still 1/5 of the persimmons I got last year, and much less than I got the other years, with seeds.
Time will tell, but I still think I 'm going to try to graft another Szukis.
John S
PDX OR
Well keep us updated.
I've been seeing big swings from year to year in all sorts of aspects of getting useful fruit. Ripening dates, sets, critter pressure, diseases. I'm nowhere close to having a routine that I can count on.
In some ways that's very exciting , others very frustrating.
I completely agree. I can't tell if it's the weather during the week when it was blooming or what?
John S
PDX OR
One Saijo, one Giboshi on the counter. The Saijo tree looks to be ahead of schedule this year.
I pretty much had my first Saijo and Nikita's gift. The Saijo picked early and damaged. The 2 Nikita's gift the first to get orange on the small tree.
Nikita's gift is now VERY high on my list of favorite fruits. We had it on the same plate with some Prairie Star (H-18) and a case could be made for either as best. H118 was significantly sweeter and stronger flavored and heavily perfumed flavor this year, although the texture has been more mealy than I remember. Nikita's gift was silky smooth, plenty sweet, beautiful and also had more subtle but still distinct floral/perfumy note.
The only other time I'd had Nikita's gift were some fruit they sold at the One Green World retail store. They were entirely unremarkable, not as good as typical grocery store Hachiya, more like soft grocery store Jiro from California picked green.
Now I need to grow a whole tree of Nikita's gift that's more vigorous than the multigrafted runt its on.
The Saijo was disappointing. My wife, who loves persimmons, rated it last on our plate of 7 types of fruit. I'm assuming it was just a bad piece. The others on the tree this year, the first really producing maybe 10 or so, are mostly damaged and have deep ribbing. Hopefully next year will be a big improvement like the Nikita's gift saw. The Saijo is a beautiful well shaped tree with big dark green leaves. Probably the best looking Persimmon tree I've got
I love getting different opinions and situations. The old HOS orchard had Saijo and I loved the flavor. It was gooey and falling apart when I loved it. Some might not like that. I don't know what the difference is between their tree and your tree. Isn't Nikita's Gift the one that people on growing fruit keep saying is falling off prematurely all the time?
I remember tasting Black Twig/Mammoth at the HOS fair. Someone brought them in and they were SPECTACULAR! I grafted it into my tree and they've been good, but never spectacular. Makes me want to figure out exactly how they grew it.
John S
PDX OR
This is Lance of urban PDX who let me take pictures today. He said his tree (definitely persimmon) got planted under 10 years ago and that he's picking two weeks earlier than he should this year because he knows it's people (not squirrels) that see them. He hates them just pulling and the whole branch breaks.
By the looks of Johns comment relating to saijo at past fairs and other comments about things like time of ripening makes me think saijo must be what these are?
To me those look more like Fuyu-type persimmons. Saijos normally have an elongated egg shape. Those in the picture look pretty oblate like a Fuyu. Fuyus can be eaten while still quite firm. I doubt anyone would want to eat a tannic, firm Saijo! You need to wait until Saijos are soft and squishy.
Perfect !!
I had walked away from Lance to remember to post his and the persimmons name before posting them and obviously wrote them down before driving home. But Jean, thankyou, because your right. I lost my note when I got home but I Did write Fuyu. 🙂
Rooney said
This is Lance of urban PDX who let me take pictures today. He said his tree (definitely persimmon) got planted under 10 years ago and that he's picking two weeks earlier than he should this year because he knows it's people (not squirrels) that see them. He hates them just pulling and the whole branch breaks.
Grateful mine are planted out of reach of other humans - that could really be discouraging.
Lance looks to be getting a good crop. His tree looks better loaded than the Fuyu-type a couple blocks away.
I'm guessing that Rooney's pictured persimmons could be Matsumoto Wase Fuyu, I think that's what One Green World sells as "Early Fuyu", or maybe Izu. Based on timing I'd lean towards Matsumoto which is a little later than Izu. Jiro and sports are popular too for non-astringent, but they have more pronounced ribbing.
Of course there are many varieties of kaki with roughly that shape. I'm assuming its a non-astringent, but not necessarily.
It's definitely not Saijo, others are being polite 🙂
Yes, Saijo is normally more oblong. It has been darker, also, when I've seen it.
John S
PDX OR
quokka said
One Saijo, one Giboshi on the counter. The Saijo tree looks to be ahead of schedule this year.
So far about a dozen tree-ripened Saijo. Some of the fruit are way ahead of schedule, some look to be on the normal schedule. Harvested about a dozen Giboshi today. They will have to counter-ripen for some time. No idea why some Saijo are early this year. No microclimate difference - the two trees are side by side with conditions pretty equal, and no detectable changes from previous years.
Rick Shory just made an interesting thread on this topic:
https://rickshory.wordpress.co.....24#respond
John S
PDX OR
quokka said
One Saijo, one Giboshi on the counter. The Saijo tree looks to be ahead of schedule this year.
Today harvested the last of the Giboshi. They will need some time to ripen indoors. There are still Saijo on the tree, and many of those harvested so far have at least partially tree ripened.
Several of the Giboshi were pollinated this year. Not objectionable, but it did not improve their flavor.
quokka said
One Saijo, one Giboshi on the counter. The Saijo tree looks to be ahead of schedule this year.
Know that old saying "the conclusion is when you get tired of thinking?" Today was the conclusion of the Saijo harvest. Pretty much in line with previous years.
Heaviest Saijo harvest ever this year.