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GH
Battle Ground, WA
129 Posts
(Offline)
1
January 11, 2018 - 1:54 am

I planted a Seckel pear tree in 2014.  It grew well and looked beautiful in 2015. It has since been severely infected with Pacific Coast Pear Rust.  This fungal disease produces orange spots over the entire tree and causes the fruit to be misshapen and drop. It can infect apple trees as well as pears.

Pacific Coast Pear Rust apparently began on cedar trees, then moved to my pear tree. The main advice given on websites is to remove all cedar trees in the area.  There are dozens of cedars on my property and neighbors', so that is an impractical solution. They are also beautiful and provide privacy, as well as shelter for birds and bunnies.

The Seckel is my only European pear tree. There is no rust on any of my apple trees or two Asian pear trees, thankfully.

Removing infected areas would mean removing the entire tree in this case.  Is this a good idea in order to help prevent its spread to other fruit trees? Destroying fallen leaves, branches, and fruit from the pear hasn't seemed to make a difference. The tree was planted in memory of my father, who loved Seckel pears, and I don't want to destroy it unnecessarily. 

I garden organically; so even if there were a nonorganic fungicide solution, I wouldn't use it.  

John S, you have mentioned a compost tea for fungal diseases that affect your peach trees. Is it worth a try, do you think?  

My pear tree can't be the only one infected by this in the Portland, OR/Vancouver, WA area.  Has anyone else experienced it?  Suggestions and insights would be appreciated.

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
426 Posts
(Offline)
2
January 12, 2018 - 2:01 pm

GH said
...Pacific Coast Pear Rust apparently began on cedar trees, then moved to my pear tree. The main advice given on websites is to remove all cedar trees in the area.  There are dozens of cedars on my property and neighbors', so that is an impractical solution. They are also beautiful and provide privacy, as well as shelter for birds and bunnies....  ...Removing infected areas would mean removing the entire tree in this case.  Is this a good idea in order to help prevent its spread to other fruit trees? Destroying fallen leaves, branches, and fruit from the pear hasn't seemed to make a difference. The tree was planted in memory of my father, who loved Seckel pears, and I don't want to destroy it unnecessarily....

Hi GH,

I just clicked on to your posting and was a bit concerned that there might be a misunderstanding related to the "common names" involved.  I don't know whether my reply might clarify anything, but here goes:

Pacific Coast Pear Rust is Gymnosporangium libocedri. Its host plant in the telial stage is the conifer Calocedrus decurrens, which in the past was treated as a Libocedrus (hence the rust's species name of libocedri).  The tree's "common name" is Incense Cedar, even though it isn't a true cedar.  A true cedar would be in the genus Cedrus.  Our beautiful "Western Red Cedar", which some of us are lucky enough to have on our properties, is Thuja plicata.  Other "common names" for it include Pacific Red Cedar, Giant Cedar, and Arborvitae.  It too is not a true cedar.  

Another rust -- which many people are concerned about who grow pome fruits -- is Cedar Apple Rust.  It is Gymnosporangium juniperi-virginiae and its telial stage is on Juniperus virginiana.  This latter conifer is a true juniper, but its "common name" is...  [wait for it]  ... Eastern Red Cedar.  "Common names" can literally send me into uncontrolled hissy fits.  Just ask my wife!

You mentioned that you have many cedar trees around and wouldn't want to remove them.  It's quite possible that what you have are our Western Red Cedars, which would not be hosts for the rust.  I don't know where you acquired your Seckel pear, but is it possible that it may have been infected before you acquired it?  Otherwise you should check whether you do in fact have Incense cedars in your area.  I appreciate that you don't want to have to destroy the pear given that it was planted in your father's memory.  That would really hurt.  

I quote from a book that I'll recommend:  In regard to Pacific Coast Pear Rust "little work has been done on control, but fungicides used for cedar apple rust are effective.  Although eradication of the alternate host would reduce disease incidence, it would not be practical or environmentally desirable in all areas."

The book is Compendium of Apple and Pear Diseases and Pests, 2nd Ed.  It's a pricey paperback (218 pp.) from the American Phytopathological Society (2nd Ed. in 2014), but if you're serious about your pomaceous fruit trees I highly recommend it.  It's jam-packed with contributions from many specialists and has numerous helpful photographs.

Like you, I garden organically and cringe at the thought of having to even use something like a fungicide.  Each situation requires assessment of whether one thinks it's worth it.  I hope that this info helps a bit and I certainly wish you good luck in dealing with the problem!  Wink

Reinettes (who calls his nearest 2 Western Red Cedars "my cathedral".)

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GH
Battle Ground, WA
129 Posts
(Offline)
3
January 14, 2018 - 3:45 am

Reinettes, I believe that the trees are Western Red Cedars. So either neighbor(s) have an Incense Cedar, or your suggestion that the Seckel Pear came with Pacific Coast Pear Rust is accurate.

I will try a compost tea regimen this year. There's also the hope that the tree can "grow" out of it. You never know. 

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
4
January 18, 2018 - 5:37 pm

My quince tree gets rust pretty bad each year.  I think that it is so productive and unique that, like peaches, the extra effort seems to be worth it at this point.  

I've spent 15 minutes trying to upload the article. It's not working. I've got to eat dinner with the family.

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
5
January 18, 2018 - 6:27 pm

Try # 2.

I give up.

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
778 Posts
(Offline)
6
January 18, 2018 - 11:59 pm

John: If you are trying to upload a file to the forum that isn't recognized as a graphic file it won't work. Files that unrelate to graphic files are text files or another example is PDF, as they are supplied with characters and styles of fonts (nothing graphic). However if you can read the text article on your computer screen of something you want to share then half the work is already accomplished. You need only to "screenshot" it to the clipboard and paste it into one of those pre installed graphics program already inside every computer. From there select out all the other screen junk such as task bar etc. that you copy pasted. Then "save as" in gif or ping format for characters, or jpeg for pictures. At this point it requires a name for the file which I would suggest not keeping the default name so start it with hos followed by any long number. Once you invoked that routine you can invoke a file search by entering in "hos" and click search. Once the search screen locates the image then end of story (same steps uploading as you have before).

Of course try to leave the credentials of the authority whos work it is on the paper. Avoiding that could be trouble.

Oh.. the first thing I emphasised in quotes is "screenshot". In windows and many tablet androids it is holding the "shift" and "print screen" keys at the same time and in some cases I have noted it needs to be depressed for 2 seconds.

If you can it might be nice. I also had issues on my quinces water sprouts with junipers nearby. Everything that is pear within 4 feet of my quince infections get nailed but not asian pears so much.

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
7
January 20, 2018 - 12:50 pm

Thanks Rooney,

I read through your instructions and I am able to understand parts of it, but not yet make it work. Tragically, with an article that I wrote for the HOS Pome News, the only people I can't share it with are HOS members!
JOhn S
PDX OR

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
778 Posts
(Offline)
8
January 20, 2018 - 5:19 pm

There is another easier way to understand instructions about screenshots when you download a windows program from pixelmetrics.com which is simpler and free for 30 days. 

Try to remember though, it is still not going to explain why text converted to images should be converted (save as) into .gif or .png and not to choose a file type more suited to analog (pictures of faces) kind of graphics. So I will.

The answer is that you won't want the HOS server to carry a huge load of converting your image the second time into a smaller size. Therefore by you supplying the proper file the smaller footprint the better. So by keeping texts, cartoons, or simple things like lines in .gif or .png files the files become efficient and less difficult for servers to convert or rastor the rest of the crunching down. In other words .jpg files that are pictures of trees that are trying to be uploaded to HOS will increase the file size too much by you converting or saving into gif or ping file types, which you should never do. The same file size increase should be given to never send a gif or ping image of a tree. 

Windows native way to clipboard an image I beleive starts with bitmap or .bmp, and also should be avoided supplying that to HOS (like .tif or tiff is to apple operating systems) those types are the largest most maximum sizes of files that should be stepped down first before wiring to anywhere using the previous methology.

If you have been using windows vista or older then my copy of pixel metrix will work on yours if you end up liking the trial period of ~version 4.2

I paid for 2 licenses under the same unlocking serial number that I could give you (which I still have unused the copy of from 15 years ago purchase) so the transfer of my version to you with the unlock is legal.

Pixelmetrix makes the user experience very interesting. There are others to accomplish the same thing. What's also cute (besides the easy to follow guiding principles) is the ability to also capture pull down menus or mouse cursor by invoking a keyboard sequence. Something I think would be pretty handy to teach your children to start getting used to. At least for those of us that are graphical orientated the way I am.

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
9
January 21, 2018 - 10:24 am

My head is spinning.  Thanks Rooney, but I don't think I'm anywhere near that yet. GH, if you want to, you can email me at skyjs@yahoo.com and I will send you the article.
John S
PDX OR

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
778 Posts
(Offline)
10
January 22, 2018 - 7:43 pm

There you go!

It only took me a few minutes at a library then a few more to check out the resolution on my cell phone. With 2 fingers on my cell phone it magnifies and expands very nice.

[added for future personal reference that Hos server handled this image straight at 385 by 573 pixels, then I increased the html insertion tag dimentions by 30% to 502 by 745 pixels to magnify/zoom the extra remaing backgound (30%) whitespace]

[but the server sandbox is not flexible to have images resized, therefore upon next time the adjustment must be increased before the upload, so changing html tags back to 385 by 573]

This fine article on disease prevention by John_S and credits to others can be expanded on touch sensitive screens only. one other option is to invoke the print icon within this post because printing will refine or resolve the fine texture much better than through the graphics cards of most machines.

John: Do you think it might improve the struggles we have due to baterial pseudomonas?

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
11
January 23, 2018 - 4:59 pm

Yes, I think it would help a lot with bacterial or fungal disease.  The first time I tried it, I had an orchard full of dying, black fruit trees that weren't growing. I'm now sure it was a bacterial disease. It was like magic.  Within two weeks, they were all green and clearly growing.

John S
PDX OR

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
12
January 23, 2018 - 5:00 pm

Thanks for doing that Rooney.

John S

PDX OR

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
426 Posts
(Offline)
13
February 8, 2018 - 5:33 pm

Hi folks,

It's been awhile since I checked-in to the forum due to my chaotic life, but I wanted to say a "Thank You" to John S. and to Rooney for the very interesting foregoing information.  I've never made a compost tea up 'til now but the subject has fascinated me for some time now and I keep thinking that I should give it a try because of the number of interesting articles that I've seen elsewhere in print.

Also, to GH in Battle Ground:  Whether or not you end up using a compost tea on your pear this year, please let us know the results.  I presume from your posting that you've used compost teas in the past and I'm always interested in learning more about natural approaches to treatments of pests and disease.  We've certainly got our share of them here in the Pacific Northwest....

Reinettes 

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GH
Battle Ground, WA
129 Posts
(Offline)
14
July 18, 2018 - 4:04 pm

There is great news concerning my Seckel pear and its problem with Pacific Coast Pear Rust!  I followed John's advice about trying compost tea, and it has made an amazing difference in the health of the tree.

I "cheated" a little on the compost tea.  Some compost tea packets came with a Raintree Nursery apple tree purchase this spring, which I forgot to place into the planting holes. One Green World gives instructions on how to make compost tea out of these tea packets, so I decided to give it a try. In April I filled a bucket with water and let it sit for a day or so, allowing the chlorine to evaporate.  I moved the bucket to a shady area, placed 2 packets (kept in the refrigerator until now) into the bucket, and swished the water around whenever it was convenient, in order to aerate it a bit.  After 24 hours or so I poured/splashed the water onto the pear tree, as best as I could, figuring that it wouldn't hurt for the excess to soak into the soil surrounding the tree. The leaves at this time already had a great deal of rust.

Within a week the pear tree looked remarkably better, and within a few weeks the rust was almost gone!  If I hadn't witnessed this, I wouldn't have believed it. The process was repeated a month later.  

The tree now has around 40 to 50 pears, the leaves are healthy and green, and there's only a little disease damage.  This is the first time that the pears haven't been deformed, and it's the first time since 2015 that the leaves weren't covered in orange!

It is amazing and almost unbelievable that there was so much improvement, and in such a short time. If these packets worked so well, how much more beneficial would home-made aerated compost tea be for orchards and gardens?

I tried to attach a photograph, but an error code stated that the file size was too large.

Thanks to John, Reinettes, and Rooney for your advice and help with this. 

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
15
July 23, 2018 - 8:50 pm

Great job, GH!

Yes, I think if you actively aerated it, your compost tea would work even better.

I also make one bucket of bacterial-focused compost tea and one of fungal for the respective diseases.

Excellent news and congratulations.

John S
PDX OR

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GH
Battle Ground, WA
129 Posts
(Offline)
16
July 27, 2018 - 2:36 pm

John, will you explain the difference between your bacterial-focused and fungal-focused compost teas?

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
17
July 28, 2018 - 4:07 pm

Bacterial is to fight bacterial diseases.  It consists of compost made from material that turns quickly into soil, such as grass clippings, soft leaves, old fruit and vegetables, etc. It will be dominated by bacteria.  It is most helpful for plants like flowers, vegetables, forbs, that arent' too woody.

Fungal compost tea is to fight fungal diseases, like rust, scab, and powdery mildew.  It is made of things that don't turn quickly into soil, like wood, evergreen leaves, stems, sticks, oak leaves, nut shells, etc.  It will be dominated by fungal microbiology.  It is most helpful for woody plants like trees and large bushes.

John S
PDX OR

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GH
Battle Ground, WA
129 Posts
(Offline)
18
July 28, 2018 - 6:16 pm

So you make two dedicated compost piles, one to treat bacteria and the other to treat fungi?

In a sense I suppose that I compost similarly, one with mostly non-diseased garden/kitchen scraps along with dried and chopped leaves, etc., for carbon and the other mostly with yard waste. I will have to do some rethinking in order to make the best use of compost teas.

Thanks for the clarification. 

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
19
July 28, 2018 - 9:32 pm

It's not that I make the piles separately.I will take sticks, pine cones and oak leaves out for the fungal and use the rest for the bacterial.  I also grind up oatmeal flour and leave it moist in the garage open for a week or two. It gets lots of mold, etc for the fungal. Also worm castings are great for the bacterial if you have those worms.  Then I put the material in a mesh paint strainer bag and put each one in it's own 5 gallon bucket and aereate for 24 hrs.

John S
PDX OR

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Peckofruit
9 Posts
(Offline)
20
March 2, 2024 - 10:13 am

Its been 5 years I see. What's the latest news with anyone else here that may have experienced compost tea making and results?

I just lost half my 1 acre apple orchard to Anthracnose fall '23 .

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Peckofruit
9 Posts
(Offline)
21
March 2, 2024 - 10:13 am

Anthracnose is a fungus I understand and Im wondering if this competitive competition methodology of overpowering disease organisms can work on Anthracnose as well ...Apple Scab and Mildew

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John S
PDX OR
2817 Posts
(Offline)
22
March 2, 2024 - 3:32 pm

I've been making it every year for 20 years or so. I was on the verge of losing $300 + worth of plants. It saved them all.  Since then I just use it and some other practices as prevention of disease outbreaks and it seems that they work very welll. I don't use synthetic pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, or fertilizers.  Don't panic, I'm all organic.  Permaculture too. Investment in the soil and ecology.

John S
PDX OR

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