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I harvested my first persimmons
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John S
PDX OR
2834 Posts
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September 8, 2023 - 5:31 pm

My drought stressed Szukis persimmon has provided a ripe fruit every day for the last 3 days.  I wonder if the drought stress is a factor. I used to not be able to harvest persimmons until late October and into November, but it's been gradually becoming earlier.  Now, when late October and November arrive, I have no more persimmons to harvest, even though I am growing many more persimmons than before.   My other persimmon trees aren't ready to give me ripe fruit.  Their fruit is not even starting to get orange yet.  I think I'm going to put an olla underneath the Szukis tree next year, as well as more biochar, to help support it in these times of ever increasing heat and drought. 

 

John S
PDX OR

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jafar
780 Posts
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September 8, 2023 - 9:07 pm

Yesterday I saw a few H118 on the ground, but too damaged for me to mess with.  Today I saw a pretty orange one still on the tree.  I gave it a gentle squeeze and it yielded a little, then it came off in my hand.  It has a black spot on one side, probably damage that speeded its ripening.  It's on the counter, maybe I'll try it on Sunday.  

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Chris M
Philomath, OR
156 Posts
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September 8, 2023 - 9:57 pm

Do you eat them fresh or do you dry them?

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jafar
780 Posts
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September 9, 2023 - 9:52 am

Fresh.  I've yet to have dried persimmon that weren't bland.

I like dried European pear, stone fruit, jackfruit.  Dried persimmons are pleasant, I'm happy to have them to mindlessly eat like fodder, but they don't bring much pleasure.

Maybe I just don't have a good source and don't know how to do them.  I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

I used to think that dragonfruit were flavorless until I finally had some flavorful sweet yellow ones.

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John S
PDX OR
2834 Posts
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September 9, 2023 - 7:14 pm

I agree with Jafar.  The fresh ones are so good. It's hard to dry something and make it inferior.

John S
PDX OR

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Dubyadee
Puyallup, Washington, USA
239 Posts
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September 11, 2023 - 7:14 pm

My Izu persimmon has fruit finally. They aren’t very big, walnut sized and about 20 on the tree. 

IMG_6562.jpeg

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jafar
780 Posts
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September 11, 2023 - 7:48 pm

Beautiful.  Thanks for the pictures.  A few  years back I was scouring the web to find pictures of Izu fruit like that. 

I'm in a similar situation Dubyadee.  I bought an "Izu" tree a long time ago from Burnt Ridge, but the fruit didn't match the description.  I finally grafted Izu to it in 2021.  Now those branches are loaded with fruit.  

The original variety, probably Jiro or a derivative, is also fruiting.  Those are a little bigger than the Izu fruit at this stage, some getting as large as the smallest ones I've seen for sale.  It will be interesting to compare them to one another.

I also have Matsumoto Wase on the tree.  I grafted those in 2022 and they flowered and set some fruit the first year.  I went away on a business trip last fall and they were gone when I returned 🙁

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John S
PDX OR
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September 12, 2023 - 2:15 pm

My Garrettsons are just starting to change color.  No sign of color change on H-118 yet, nor on the early golden,  but I am very grateful that the fruit actually stayed on the H-118 tree this year, and I should get my first harvest in 3 years.

John S
PDX OR

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jafar
780 Posts
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September 12, 2023 - 4:08 pm

That first dropped H118 got soft enough for me to dare try.  The damaged side, probably responsible for its early ripening, grew and I cut 30% of the fruit off before eating.  There was zero astringency while still pretty firm.  The flavor was good, a little watered down from usual.  

Some of the others are turning opaque light orange.  Close to where, when brought in, they will continue to soften and reach eating condition.  Others are still pretty green - some with some maroon or something probably from heat and drought.  I think those will turn orange though.20230912_165010_HDR.jpg20221019_1753201.jpg20230912_170534.jpg20230912_170458.jpg

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John S
PDX OR
2834 Posts
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September 15, 2023 - 8:42 pm

I had my first Early Golden a couple of days ago.  It was better than last year, on a par with Garrettson and H-118.  I think it's getting more sun, just because it's so &^%$! hot and dry nowadays.  I've eaten a couple of Garrettsons too.  Awesome as always.  H-118 is still a ways off.

John S
PDX OR

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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September 19, 2023 - 5:16 pm

Mine look to be on their usual schedule. If there is a difference due to weather patterns, it isn't apparent yet here. John, that's a huge change at your place. It is hard to imagine that there has been that much of an increase in GDD there, has it affected other crops in your yard?

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John S
PDX OR
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September 24, 2023 - 9:22 pm

Yes, my apples are changing too.  My Goumis are earlier as well.  My aronias are shriveled and dried up.  I didn't use to have to water them.  My pineapple guavas stopped flowering or fruiting with all of the extra heat.  My plants in large pots are almost all on the verge of dying of thirst and excess heat. 

I do live in the Portland metro, which is a giant heat island.  I'm sure I'm more affected by that than most people on this list.  Corvallis is quite a bit smaller.

John S
PDX OR

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John S
PDX OR
2834 Posts
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September 26, 2023 - 2:16 pm

I have noticed less astringency this year. I wonder if it could be related to the amount of heat units and sun we're getting these days. I notice when I listen to someone from the East or South talk about when their persimmons are ripe, it's usually earlier than for here in the PNW.  I have been eating tons of Szukis, Early Golden and Garretson. Hopefully, my H-118's will come soon.

John S
PDX OR

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jafar
780 Posts
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14
September 29, 2023 - 7:00 pm

Yeah, me too.  These are the best yet.  I harvested a dozen translucent ones, many beginning to split, from the tree today.  Delicious.  H118.20230929_184631.jpg

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John S
PDX OR
2834 Posts
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15
October 11, 2023 - 6:00 pm

I had my first ripe H-118 drop today. No seeds and very yummy.  They are like an average tomato, much larger than my Garretsons and Early Goldens, which are more like a small plum or a large sweet cherry.  The Szukis are tiny, like a pie cherry. I had never noticed until this year how much later they are than the others.

John S
PDX OR

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jafar
780 Posts
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October 11, 2023 - 7:52 pm

I had one yesterday with a plump seed in it.  I'd guess it was viable.  I'm curious whether it pollinized itself, or perhaps got pollen from Nikita's Gift.

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John S
PDX OR
2834 Posts
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17
October 26, 2023 - 9:29 pm

This is the first year in which I can really say that my H-118's are clearly better than my Garretsons.  They are both better than my Early Goldens or my Szukis.  They are all really good.  The H-118's have fewer seeds. 

 

John S

PDX OR

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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18
October 28, 2023 - 8:17 am

While the discussion thus far has been about native persimmons, hopefully there are no objections to a kaki report.

So far I've taken about 50 Giboshi off the tree. While it would be better, on an individual piece of fruit basis, to let them stay on the tree until starting to soften, there are a couple of overall drawbacks to following this approach wholesale. One, as they ripen they attract more competition from critters that aren't as careful to avoid breaking branches. Two, there are only so many that can be eaten or given away in short windows of time. The tree is loaded this year, and the neighboring Saijo (with none harvested yet) is also loaded this year. Hence, a little at a time.

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John S
PDX OR
2834 Posts
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19
October 29, 2023 - 8:12 am

Yes, Dave,

I have never had a glut of persimmons until this year.  My persimmons also set fruit like never before. I wonder if we had a weather window that was particularly favorable.

John S
PDX OR

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John S
PDX OR
2834 Posts
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20
October 29, 2023 - 12:55 pm

I noticed on the H-118's that you don't have to wait until they drop, which is useful to get more fruit and have less rodent predation.  I look for ones that are plump and juicy. They look like they will fall off, but they won't.  If you twist them, they come off easily and are ripe with no astringency.  On my Garrettsons and Early Goldens, I mostly wait for them to drop, although I have successfully shook the Garrettson tree to get fruit.

John S
PDX OR

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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21
October 29, 2023 - 1:44 pm

John S said

I have never had a glut of persimmons until this year.  My persimmons also set fruit like never before. I wonder if we had a weather window that was particularly favorable.

John:

I hope that it is just your persimmons coming of age. Time will tell.

In the case of my Giboshi

Y2 in ground (4YO plant?) 66 piece of fruit

Y3 in round (5Y?) 200 pieces of fruit. 

Y4 our special little friends, the invasive species grey squirrels, broke many branches. Between them and the Giboshi having some really bizarre growth, a severe "start over" pruning was necessary.

Y5 as anticipated, zero fruiting and the tree grew back out.

Y6 the late frost killed most leaves and all blossoms, zero fruit.

Y7 (2023) couldn't do any pruning, tree has gone wild. So far 61 fruit harvested (a few also removed due to critter damage) and if you saw the tree you'd be asking why harvesting hasn't started yet. So some extra stored energy, and/or just back on track?

The neighboring Saijo has produced more every year, except last year when it got zeroed out. This year it has the biggest crop it has had to date.

My understanding (zero experience) is that the native persimmons mature later than kaki. I've read that when young they tend to be biennial, that they need to be 10-15 years old to be regular. I knew up front I lacked that much patience (and space). How old are yours? Is it possible they are just starting to come into their productive years?

Dave

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John S
PDX OR
2834 Posts
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22
October 29, 2023 - 2:11 pm

Very possible.  Mine are 5-15 years old.  Biochar may have been a contributor, as they had a big impact on several species.  I have added, then readded more biochar to them. Some also are getting more sun, since WE are getting more sun in this climate change scenario.  Generally, American persimmons ripen earlier than Asian ones.  The fruit are much larger on Asian trees, which may be more of a magnet for the rodents.  Here is another strategy I use to ward off rodents:

 

Jade-on-stairs.jpg

 

JohN S
PDX OR

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jafar
780 Posts
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23
October 29, 2023 - 2:32 pm

20231023_154414_giombo.jpgJohn, I've found with H118 that once they are full colored they can be taken in and will probably ripen and lose astringency.

But usually I pick them from the tree when they become translucent and which also means they are fully orange and have begun softening.

This year was my first getting any Izu and I've probably picked 30 or so with that many left.  There are also whatever the original tree was still on the lower branches, probably Jiro.  They are bigger and just starting to turn orange.

Half or more of the Izu have a crack halfway around the calyx.  Where its split turns black, but once cut away the persimmon is good still.  Those are the ones that are ripening first.  I'm guessing its from drought followed by heavy rain that had them sizing up too fast.

Last year my grafts of Matsumoto Wase on the same tree set a bunch of fruit, same year they were grafted, but when I came back from a business trip they were gone.

I have good sized Saijo tree that doesn't flower or fruit much.  There is exactly one fruit on it now starting to turn orange.  I've never tasted Saijo.

I also have 4 Giombo and maybe that many Sheng on my stunted Fuyugaki.  That tree has a few Izu, had one Nikita's Gift, and maybe a couple of Fuyugaki still on it too.  All of the fruit are small except Giombo.

Pictured are some Izu with other fall fruit, and Giombo on the tree from last week.

20231023_154743_HDR.jpg

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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24
October 29, 2023 - 4:43 pm

Jade is cute!

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Dannytoro1
60 Posts
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25
October 29, 2023 - 4:44 pm

We have a couple of large wild American Persimmons here. Very prolific but always bi-annual. No one bothers with them so I do not spray them.

 

Funny the deer will walk the property line and come right next to ours and our neighbors shops.

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John S
PDX OR
2834 Posts
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26
October 30, 2023 - 9:22 pm

I had an Izu at the other house. It fruited reliably and I liked the fruit, but I found the taste uninteresting.  Saijo, is IMHO, one of the most interesting Asian persimmons and one worth growing. Every time I hear that name, I think of the 70's hit, "So let the Side show (Saijo) begin, hurry hurry, step right up in."  The squirrels don't think that Jade is cute. They think she's a vicious killer, but I have to agree with you, quokka.

John S
PDX OR

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jafar
780 Posts
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27
October 30, 2023 - 10:40 pm

John, do you think Izu is less interesting than other PCNA Fuyu type persimmons?  I know you prefer more flavorful fruit.

Izu is sweet and has a good texture.  I don't expect much more than that from a PCNA kaki.  It's also at least a couple weeks ahead of the Jiro or whatever.

I'm lookign forward to trying the Saijo and Giombo though.  H118 is really good, but the thin skin has a bitterness and it gets stuck in my teeth.  I need to find a better way to eat them.

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John S
PDX OR
2834 Posts
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October 31, 2023 - 5:07 pm

The earliness is one of the things that attracted me to Izu.  Back in the day, it was questionable whether Fuyu, for example, would ripen in our climate.  I had also read reports that American persimmon trees would grow to 85 feet tall and there was nothing you could do to make them smaller. Now I know that's definitely not true about the height of the trees.  Also that the Asian persimmons are self pollinating.  The taste is fine. It's just not better than the ones you could buy in a store, IMHO.  I love the texture of H-118, but I don't get driven off by a lot of stuff that other people do. 

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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29
October 31, 2023 - 5:49 pm

First Saijo of the year harvested. I wouldn't have, but for the first time ever a branch broke on the Saijo. Yes it was a bit overloaded. But a few were colored up enough. Seeing some bird damage elsewhere, took a couple of darker ones before the birds could.

Now up to 100 off the Giboshi so far. 

Do you guys eat the skins on the American persimmons? With the Asian astringents have been just spooning out the pulp. 

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jafar
780 Posts
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30
October 31, 2023 - 9:18 pm

@quokka yes I eat the skin on pretty much all persimmons unless it is thick.

It seems like it would be more hassle to avoid on H118 than on the kakis, but maybe that's what I should do.  The texture of the skin is good, I barely notice it, other than the bits stuck i my teeth.  But it is bitter.  I don't mind the bitterness from the part I swallow, but the bitter bits stuck in the teeth is bad.

I don't mind the small size of H118 compared to kaki, but if I try to avoid the skin, then the small size is more of a problem.

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John S
PDX OR
2834 Posts
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31
October 31, 2023 - 10:40 pm

I eat the skin on all persimmons. It never bothers me.

John S
PDX OR

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jafar
780 Posts
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November 4, 2023 - 10:34 am

H118 has lost most of its leaves and has about 50 ripe fruit hanging.

I picked my one Nikita's Gift fruit weeks ago because I didn't want to lose my chance.  I thought there were others, but those are Izu from a backup graft, that make small fruit on that runted tree.  I'd forgotten that one of my 2 Nikita's Gift branches broke off.

I liked it.  It was better than the few I had from One Green World Years ago.  Not a very complex flavor, but sweet, pretty, and pretty good texture.

20231104_094436_HDR.jpg20231103_184020.jpg20231103_184206.jpg

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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33
November 4, 2023 - 2:49 pm

Attractive tree, pretty fruit.

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jafar
780 Posts
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November 4, 2023 - 3:53 pm

Thank you. Just to be clear, the first picture of the tree is H118.

The two other pictures are of my single Nikita's Gift fruit.

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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35
December 4, 2023 - 5:28 pm

The harvest is over. From the Giboshi, got over 300 fruit harvested for human consumption. The Saijo really started to color up just in time for the Thanksgiving week frosts. So a lot of them were weakly flavored (just threw dozens out). Of the Giboshi, a few harvested T-day week were weak on flavor, but most of those left at that point were fully colored up and tasted great. A friend a few blocks away has an American persimmon (variety unknown), and the fruit we took off it after the frosts were quite good. Having never done a post-frost taste comparison, this was interesting to me. 

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jafar
780 Posts
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December 5, 2023 - 10:40 pm

quokka, thanks for the report.

There were a lot of fruit flies in the orchard this fall.  A couple of weeks ago, they were swarming my H118 when the weather was still warm.  But I haven't seen evidence of maggots.  I'm wondering if they were in the hunt for open fruit.  I don't think these are spotted wing drosophila, or everything would have been watery and maggoty already then.

Did you have any issue with fruit flies in tree-softened fruit?

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quokka
Corvallis
174 Posts
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December 5, 2023 - 11:35 pm

Jafar, I did not see any insect issues of any kind. But few fruit got fully softened on the tree prior to the cold snap. My friend's American has quite a few on the tree that are pretty soft and of those I saw, no sign of insects. 

When I removed partially eaten fruit from the trees (flickers, jays, squirrels) I did not notice insects on the exposed pulp. Maybe I didn't look close enough, maybe it was already too cold? 

Even during warmer weather, did not notice fruit flies on the trees, only in the house near fruit ripening on the counter. No doubt they came from the outdoors, and I just didn't notice them there. Swarming a tree is not a pretty image.

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jafar
780 Posts
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38
December 6, 2023 - 9:44 pm

Oh, great.  Here the fruit flies were swarming around my trees with ripe fruit.  That was new this year.   Also when the weather was hot, there were ubiquitous yellow jackets.  So many that they discouraged me from going into the orchard or mowing.  That was a first for me after being at our place for 13 years or so.

Hopefully those things were unusual, but the great apple and pear yield become regular 🙂

There did seem to be minimal evidence of stink bugs and SWD compared to previous years.

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