Menu Close
Avatar
Log In
Please consider registering
Guest
Forum Scope






Start typing a member's name above and it will auto-complete

Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
Great time to move trees
Avatar
John S
PDX OR
2955 Posts
(Offline)
1
November 1, 2024 - 4:48 pm

or bushes!

I just moved an apple tree that I grafted this spring. Now it has healed and it is less delicate than half a year ago.   Jafar let me have some cuttings of some recommended seedlings.  It has rained enough that the soil is easy to dig.  It's cool enough that we won't be stressing the plants.  It gives hardy plants lots of time to resettle their roots before they start growing actively in the spring.

Are you moving anything this time of year?

John S
PDX OR

Avatar
Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
835 Posts
(Offline)
2
November 1, 2024 - 6:34 pm

John said: It's cool enough that we won't be stressing the plants.

I don't think that's how it works unless your reading about sheltered apple trees such as in a greenhouse because the cool weather you speak of invites the end of the growing season with rain, and with that a new tide of disease. The rain is like a new environment to the apple that could exceed to the apple that stress you caused by what you grafted this spring

If you did do it the way you propose, I think I would advise all to put a temporary rain cover for about 30 days on the apple tree in it's new location. Generally 30 days should be enough to re-associate with helpful soil microbes by that time and as such these new associations will relieve all outdoorsy concerns. 

A slightly different tangent, I'm glad we understand that we never transplant in the growing season because if we did this we would soon find out that the early seasons growth are excessively stressful events once the roots get disturbed at that time.

Avatar
John S
PDX OR
2955 Posts
(Offline)
3
November 1, 2024 - 8:23 pm

That's an interesting idea, Rooney. I have never heard another single person ever say that.  I have never had a problem transplanting my trees this way and it's been a lot of trees for 25 years or so. Rain makes sure that the tree in the new location is getting moisture while it adjusts to the new location, having lost some of its roots.  It can redevelop its roots in the new location easily, because it doesn't have to worry about getting enough moisture or growing too quickly.

John S
PDX OR

Avatar
Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
835 Posts
(Offline)
4
November 1, 2024 - 11:52 pm

I consider about what I touched on as more an important 'concept' rather than an idea. The latter seems more imaginitive while the former more based on real life or past examples.

Speaking about practical examples...

For a while I was growing pawpaws from seeds and when fully dormant I thought I could unearth them in mid winter and sell them for a buck each to a plant nursery across the street. The soil was never dry, and in fact very loose and perfect to pull them as seedlings that were past two leaf seasons. So they accepted them for (fortunately as a gift) but later that year Bruce the expert over there said they died like so many in the field would warn this to happen.

So with that then why is it that an apple tree but not a pawpaw can be moved. So to get to the bottom of these differences (apple vs. pawpaw) is an idea as kind of an extension to the original concept of what we were mentioning. Which is to say that pawpaw roots go completely dormant in mid winter where as apple stay above completely dormant. 

Half of what I just said must go along with another similar example about how farmers bench graft apples. In that case the bench graft protocol is to bareroot the apple seedling in December, bring that onto a grafting bench in a cool garage, graft it, then finally leave it therr fot one month (ie. the 30 days) for callousing together. 

As seen by this process is the omission of placing them outside until the combined two stresses have recovered from the both shocks. 

Further seen is the idea that you could never recover into a new environment (ie. placing apple outside in 30 days) if roots were in the 100% dormant state the way I suspect of pawpaws.

This is out of the box somewhat but it aligns in many other scientific ways too.

Avatar
Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
835 Posts
(Offline)
5
November 2, 2024 - 12:29 am

At the end of the day, and as I'm sure you would have already been familiar with having read up on permies etc; is that it's the vegetation that commands the soil biota (as a sub section of these bilateral uminical responses), and not the other way around. If it were not so then why would a peach pit in mid winter and deeply state of dormancy die were it to be exposed from the endocarp?

There's not much point in studies just to increase our curiousity of roots or seed pits that self regulate thier own level of dormancy because it's not a necessary important thing to feed people.

Avatar
John S
PDX OR
2955 Posts
(Offline)
6
November 7, 2024 - 7:58 am

Well, that's one way to shut down a thread.

John S
PDX OR

Avatar
Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
835 Posts
(Offline)
7
November 8, 2024 - 1:15 am

When I said: There's not much point in studies just to increase our curiosity of roots or seed pits that self regulate their own level of dormancy because it's not a necessary important thing to feed people.

..It was in well meaning towards the lack of scientific knowledge in the world in relation to the economies of perennial propagation as a whole and in no way to your experiences that contribute to all of the art of perennial relocating.

Forum Timezone: America/Los_Angeles
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
Idyllwild
simplepress
Moderators:
jafar
Marsha H
Viron
John S
Top Posters:
Rooney: 835
DanielW: 519
PlumFun: 495
Reinettes: 429
jafarj: 422
davem: 381
sweepbjames: 245
Dubyadee: 244
jadeforrest: 237
gkowen: 218
Newest Members:
Alakazam
amandawilli
ArvillaKovacek
KyleighCormier
cingdad
Myramillan
smithjohn
stalkkoko
derekamills
ella102
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 4
Topics: 2948
Posts: 17143

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 0
Members: 1545
Moderators: 4
Admins: 2
Most Users Ever Online: 355
Currently Online: sweepbjames
Guest(s) 19
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)