Menu Close
Avatar
Log In
Please consider registering
Guest
Forum Scope






Start typing a member's name above and it will auto-complete

Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters

Register Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
Grafting with epigenetically-modified rootstock yields surprise
- Related Tags
Avatar
Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
684 Posts
(Offline)
1
October 22, 2020 - 7:00 am

Grafting with epigenetically-modified rootstock as per those that use the art of grafted trees and plants have now elevated the art to another higher level. The opinion I get from the article and where as a whole we are going next will be,  nonGMO modifications to our commonly sold rootstocks, and in the not so distant future!

The time-lines when the world discovered grafting were thousands of years old. When we discovered epigenetic inheritance it's been under 35 years. Now these newest thinkers have brilliantly put the two together!! Smile

.. Oct. 24th, 2020, story revised 2 days later to Penn State link:
https://news.psu.edu/story/636.....s-surprise

Avatar
DanielW
Clark County, WA
519 Posts
(Offline)
2
October 30, 2020 - 6:58 am

Thanks Rooney for an interesting link.  If I'm reading correctly,  not just grafts but also seedling progeny carry changes to future generations.  This is a little like the old "Lamarckianism' but with a new twist.  Maybe it's part of why some locally saved seeds and locally sourced plants might be more successful than those shipped from other parts of the country.  I am saving more of my own seeds now, especially after there were shortages this year.

Avatar
Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
684 Posts
(Offline)
3
October 30, 2020 - 11:30 am

Thanks!

It's true that; not just grafts but also seedling progeny carry changes to future generations. //end of quote.

However when played with in a lab (per say Penn State) this is temporal adjusting. (ie. when the environment is found to stay the same things (in progeny) revert the way they were before)

This is better referred to the plastic state of things or "plant plasticity". It's been one of my most favorite subjects for 25 years since looking more into Plant Propagation by Harmann, Kester, & Davies 1989, abouts where I first noticed a study of grasses taken from severe winters climates, that after 3 generations lost any of the original wit to survive the same they once had when re-introduced to the north.

The "wit" is plasticity is a temporary state that indeed people breeding need to account for because those changes are flexible and never stay the same. Grafters benefit knowing that this can be fixed for the life of the scion when invoked in such a way as in the lab asexually because the master gene of plasticity is (essentially) struck dead.

Avatar
DanielW
Clark County, WA
519 Posts
(Offline)
4
October 31, 2020 - 3:59 pm

Rooney said
Thanks!

It's true that; not just grafts but also seedling progeny carry changes to future generations. //end of quote.

However when played with in a lab (per say Penn State) this is temporal adjusting. (ie. when the environment is found to stay the same things (in progeny) revert the way they were before)
...

The "wit" is plasticity is a temporary state that indeed people breeding need to account for because those changes are flexible and never stay the same. Grafters benefit knowing that this can be fixed for the life of the scion when invoked in such a way as in the lab asexually because the master gene of plasticity is (essentially) struck dead.  

Rooney I wonder what role that has in the loss of traits by what I think of as somatic genetic drift.  For example, the conversion of a good apple (The original Hawkeye  / Red Delicious) into the mealy and much maligned "Red Delicious" that is so red and pretty and mealy and often tasteless.  They say that is because of selection of sports, then sports of those, etc.  Maybe there is something to the epigenetics.  And, whether we know it or not, how have others changed such as Gravenstein that apparently went from Italy to Denmark to Crimea to N. California and other treks.

Avatar
Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
684 Posts
(Offline)
5
October 31, 2020 - 10:08 pm

Daniel I know that they could find this out by one of two methods. By (a) trying erasing all the epigenetic marks in the DNA paths that are involved in the Gravenstein (ie. the sex organs) by returning two adult clones of each of the different individuals then after reverting them to **juvenile to combine graft both those as **juvenile, and, (case-b) keeping the adult wood in it's original form thereafter combine both them into one instant adult Gravenstein and on the same juvenile root per before (ie. 'case a').

With both groups growing in the same plot, influenced by some same pollen source and the identical stimulus will eventually produce (x) apples that start to resemble one another or (y) they won't. Since epigenetics is a masterfully created thing of choices for stress genes to be active or off like a sliding switch then any steps taken by these apple variants to resemble each other would validate epigenetic factors are involved. (I hope these changes I just made with-in this paragraph better explain what I left out before)

So I like your deep thinking. -a- and -b- is just one thought up solution but with tools they have at Penn now there should be others. I'm also sure when they first find out they will not try this with apples even though it is rather fast with apple to produce juvenile tissue from adult tissue in the lab; however the sticking point becomes the slow time to bear fruit.

There are so many receptors in all kinds of life that cause flipping of many genes that it still amazes me that we can even see a master stress gene being involved! Even what they started doing in tissue culture labs within the last 35 years is what causes **[adult leaf forms in plants to reset most all known genes into a juvenile state]. So hopefully that makes more sense too.

Avatar
NW Lady
Vancouver, WA
20 Posts
(Offline)
6
November 3, 2020 - 4:56 am

pretty amazing!  most of this flies over my head but I get enough to think this is a very interesting direction ...especially considering the effects of climate change.  

Daniel - I've noticed that many times the seeds I save do better.  I had thought it was probably due to the stress/damage of commercial harvesting/processing/storing. When I was a kid, my mom saves seeds mostly because of the cost of buying seeds and her garden always seemed better than my friends mother's gardens. 

Very interesting!

Avatar
Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
684 Posts
(Offline)
7
November 4, 2020 - 1:30 pm

...Possibly global warming. Nice thought but being this new the side-effects are just not known.

I looked up your topic Daniel, the three year old peach leaf resistant cultivar topic. I bring this up because the posting person #7 inside it [ where Dubyadee ] lists Frost peach and the benefits specifically on it's own roots. Today I wonder how many cases such as Frost peach looking us in the face are similar circumstances to these tomatoes at Penn?

What else about the time Frost was discovered in the PNW is Dr. Evans being given credit for a sour cherry cultivar on a farm in central Alberta. It's a very familiar prairie story. I saw him on a farm tour 2 year ago. I have seen both the Frost in full production at either Ferneys or Molback nursery in the Seattle area 24 years ago, and as well Evans cherry in the midst of Alberta when nothing else of the rest of those kinds fruit so well.

In Seattle the nurseries would assess the Frost as short lived, and here I know they are when on citation rootstock for me in Vancouver at least. In Alaska Evans also proves due to die after a while.

MSH1 or not, and irregardless of the potential problems caused, it may be well worthwhile implementing such subjects as short lived grafted plums or your resistant peaches on Frost if only to gain heavy production for a limited time?

Forum Timezone: America/Los_Angeles
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
Idyllwild
Moderators:
John S
Marsha H
Viron
jafar
portlandian
Top Posters:
Rooney: 684
DanielW: 519
PlumFun: 495
Reinettes: 375
davem: 312
Dubyadee: 222
gkowen: 218
sweepbjames: 212
Larry_G: 151
quokka: 148
Newest Members:
lelandzeller37
jaredgooseberry
kelleelamond96
ermabarrenger0
eloise3572
odettecardin147
jedodowd18
woodrowkleiman
terriheathershaw
allenmartens8
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 4
Topics: 2811
Posts: 15714

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 0
Members: 7099
Moderators: 5
Admins: 1
Most Users Ever Online: 232
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 11
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)