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Earliest to graft successfully
March 17, 2021
2:23 pm
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Rooney
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@John. I have yet to bud anything in the summer and have it rest through the next season and still survive. Not with stone fruits. Yes once with apple. I am very familiar with the steps of waiting until spring to force the bud by removing the topical portion come spring but come spring the stone fruit buds end up dried. 

I will never try summer budding around here again. It's also out of the question for me in Alaska as well due to lengthy winters and the same zero success come spring. Then as far as I'm concerned summer budding guidance is for the nursery trade in California conditions only.

So when you say bud in August, but what's your actual experiences?

March 18, 2021
7:26 pm
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John S
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I have budded many trees that way. Exclusively that way. Jerry Shroyer taught me to bud and that's what he always said. I ended up teaching the budding classes after Jerry died and no one ever thought that was a bad idea.

I don't have as high a percentage with budding as I do with w and tongue grafting.

I also bud in September.  They need to be watered beforehand.  If they are dry, it won't work. If they're juicy enough, you hear a snap when you break through the bark.

Jekahrs: rooting hormone is for putting cuttings into the ground to make them grow into plants by growing roots. It's not for grafting.

JOhn S
PDX OR

March 19, 2021
5:28 am
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DanielW
Clark County, WA
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John S said
August is usually a good time to bud, Bud.

Great post Dubyadee.  Notching is a fascinating practice. How or why it works? I don't know.

John S
PDX OR  

John, I have never trued notching, until now. I am trying to lower the branching on a young but too high branching apple tree.  I don't know if it will work.

 

My understanding is that growth tips of trees produce plant hormones, auxins, that flow back down the tree.  Those auxins inhibit growth of buds. If you cut off the top, then no inhibiting auxins flow down and dormant buds awaken and grow.  Similarly, if you notch above a viable but dormant bud, that interrupts the downward flow of auxin, so the bud awakens and grows.

Notching, WSU Extension

If this image link works, here is the notch I did the other day.  If it works, I can remove a higher branch after apple season, to lower the crown.  That will be a two or three year process.

notching

March 19, 2021
5:32 am
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DanielW
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(duplicate post, deleted)

March 19, 2021
8:15 am
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Crankyankee
Connecticut
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Daniel, thanks for posting that link to Bartlett pruning. I inherited two neglected pears trees that I started rehabilitating last season. I was just outside doing touch-up pruning and the advice on that page helped a lot.

Zone 6a in the moraines of eastern Connecticut.

March 19, 2021
5:03 pm
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John S
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Rooney,

If you still question August budding, I would ask Jafar, as he also taught the budding classes and I think generally is a little more accurate and precise than I am on grafting.  I think James was there too. 

JohN S
PDX OR

March 19, 2021
7:13 pm
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Rooney
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The original question is certainly looking for more feedback. I also checked some more and the nursery craft has been budding all the stone fruits for the months August and September. If somebody has a good memory the way I do and knows then anybody can answer as long as it's local conditions, in which case Jafar would be a good one. 

Stone fruit buds for me: Tried summer budding 'honey babe' miniature peach per book for a year or two which failed. Tried same using the current season's push in June budding the year after and it worked. Ever since I have only summer budded apple around here twice and each time it worked. One of which is how I first managed to figure out at times that apples work on pears. So I never doubted that the overwintering of pome fruit buds to live outside in a state of dormancy.

All of this was done in the slip. This miniature peach budding goes back when I was not well versed in protecting peaches from PNW conditions, which back then could have been part of the problem. 

Then there is also my past cases of cherry buds that fail every summer through the winter. The latest case is 2020-2021 (now). They were covered for rain. X-pugetensis onto prunus mahaleb and buds not pushing any when the rootstock buds are. My p mahaleb stock is already hosting stick grafts of the same species so the issue of relationship isn't an issue. 

I don't ever have prunus issues using the active budding method in May or June so it's unimportant to me as much any more but I still like to compare.

March 22, 2021
9:54 pm
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John S
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You've got me intrigued, Rooney. I may have to try some budding in May or June this year to see if I can make it happen.

John S
PDX OR

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