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1Jack1
1 Posts
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1
June 30, 2017 - 6:09 pm

Does anyone know who might be retailing Cosmic Crisp apple trees?  

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jafar
549 Posts
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2
June 30, 2017 - 9:11 pm

1Jack1, 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Cosmic Crisp apple trees aren't available retail.  They are only being sold to commercial growers in WA state at present.  

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GH
Battle Ground, WA
76 Posts
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3
December 30, 2017 - 11:46 pm

Cosmic Crisp is now being sold by Raintree Nursery in Morton, WA. Their website states that it will be sold only to Washington state residents.

I ordered mine this evening and will pick it up in February. As someone who gardens organically, I am searching for fruit that is disease resistant as well as delicious.  If this tree lives up to its hype, it should fit nicely into my small orchard.

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jafar
549 Posts
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4
December 31, 2017 - 9:07 am

GH, welcome to the forums and thanks for the update.

I've also ordered one from Raintree, and had forgotten I posted here that it wasn't available.  I should have circled back and affirmed that they are now available, but only for residents of WA state.

I think it gets opened up next year.

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GH
Battle Ground, WA
76 Posts
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5
December 5, 2019 - 11:40 pm

Cosmic Crisp is now being sold in some stores. Below is the link to a Columbian (Vancouver, WA) newspaper article. 

https://www.columbian.com/news.....ry-stores/

I planted a Cosmic Crisp tree in March 2018 and would love to get at least a couple of apples next year.  The rootstock is M.106, and it didn't flower this past spring; so it will probably take another year for the tree to produce. It is growing well and so far has been disease-free. 

I'm eager to taste this apple while remaining a little skeptical of the publicity surrounding it. Supposedly the tree has some disease resistance; and the apple has a good sweet/tart flavor, is crisp and juicy, stores for a very long time, and ships well. It certainly is an attractive apple, with white lenticels. 

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John S
PDX OR
2514 Posts
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6
December 9, 2019 - 6:25 pm

It's funny that I should chance upon this thread right now.  I just tasted my first Cosmic Crisp 20 minutes ago.  From my point of view, the apple was very crisp and very delicious.  It may be slightly on the tart side for some peoples' tastes.  I thought it was outstanding. 

It's hard for me to order a new tree when I have no room and I already have more outstanding organic, permaculture quality apples that I can eat, year round.

John S
PDX OR

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GH
Battle Ground, WA
76 Posts
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7
December 18, 2019 - 2:05 am

These apples are delicious, at least the ones that are medium to large in size and mostly red.

The first batch that I bought came in a prepackaged 2-pound bag and were not organically grown.  They were small and mostly green and were disappointing, not at all like the description. At $3 a pound, they were not worth the price.

A week later I found some organically grown, large, red, lovely Cosmic Crisps - wow! I love the texture, dense and crisp.  The flavor is very nice - sweet but with a tartness that cuts the sugar, giving it more complexity than (in my opinion) Honeycrisp. I was concerned that the skin would be thick like it is in Enterprise, but it wasn't. If they weren't $4 a pound, I would happily purchase a bushel. For now I will buy a few at a time, until I can pick my own.

My suggestion is to give these apples a try as long as they're mostly red, even at $4 a pound - the price should drop next year when more apples are produced, I suspect.  Fred Meyer had nonorganic Cosmic Crisp on sale this week for $2 a pound, so better prices can be found even now.

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ericwalls
Gresham
13 Posts
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8
December 22, 2019 - 8:52 am

My wife bought some at Winco, 1.99 a pound. Very large and flavorful, although not as crisp as the hype I was listening to. still a very good apple.  I saw Burntridge had them to ship to Washing state only.

I bought some Juici apples and thought they were even better. It's a cross between Braburn and Honeycrisp. I tied to find info and it appears they are also a patented variety and grown only in a very few orchards in Washington. I sure would love to plant this one as I think it's my favorite.

A friend of mine lives in Vancouver and plans on planting some Cosmic Crisp, I may have to get one from him and try it too.Smile 

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jafar
549 Posts
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9
December 22, 2019 - 11:06 am

So far the Cosmic Crisp seem to have a big variation in size, color, texture, sugar and so forth.  Even the characteristic lenticels for which they are named seem to vary.

The ones I've had have varied from not bad to very good.  I like them significantly better than Washington grown Honeycrisp.  I wonder how Cosmic Crisp will do when grown elsewhere.  I get the impression that Honeycrsip from Minnesota are much better than what we get here.

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GH
Battle Ground, WA
76 Posts
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10
February 14, 2022 - 8:57 pm

This is an update on my Cosmic Crisp apple tree, planted in 2018 on M.106 rootstock.

It produced 2 apples in 2020. 

Last year (2021) the tree made it through June drop with around 3 dozen apples remaining.  Then the record heat wave happened in late June, with the highest-temperature day reaching 114 degrees.  Approximately one dozen apples were damaged, which still left a couple of dozen that made it to September.  They were delicious!  The texture is crisp, similar to Honeycrisp, one of its parents.  The flavor is sweet and sour, nicely complex.  

So far the tree has been completely disease-free, without the use of even organically-approved sprays.  I applied maggot barriers soaked in Surround clay and can't comment on how impervious the apples may be to coddling moths and apple maggots.

The other apple in the photo is a Gala from my tree.  It's included for size comparison.  

Two huge thumbs up from me!20210918_194624-1.jpg20210918_203731-1.jpg

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JeanW
23 Posts
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11
February 15, 2022 - 12:36 am

Two thumbs up from me too!  Cosmic Crisp from my own trees left to hang until fully ripe are outstanding--very crisp, juicy, and complex.  The ones from the store picked too early--not so much.  A couple of years ago, I tasted one still hanging on a tree in a friend’s orchard in December, and it was amazing even at that late date.

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jafar
549 Posts
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12
February 15, 2022 - 8:04 pm

Daniel, obviously you are doing something right.  Mine hasn't flowered yet.

I was disappointed in the store bought ones and stopped buying them last year.  I hadn't bought any this year either until my sister, who lives in Portland, asked me if I'd heard of this great new apple she'd just eaten.  Today I tried my first one of the year and it is excellent.  

Hopefully the growers and distributors are working out the kinks and it will stabilize into something that is consistently excellent.  

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
370 Posts
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13
February 16, 2022 - 4:04 pm

...Oh, GEEZ, here comes Reinettes again....

My sincere apologies, but I just have a distaste for the corporate patenting of genes.  To me, it's American-style capitalism run amuck.  I have no qualms whatsoever about capitalism when the purveyor charges a reasonable price to the purchaser.  However, the patenting of genes and certain genetic combinations is -- to me -- the realm of greedy corporate overreach, taking "ownership" and making profits over genes that are naturally occurring and that they didn't "create".  In my book, that is just wrong.  

My apologies, as usual, but I just don't want to contribute any money to such greedy corporate types who believe that they can take possession of, and "own", natural diversity.  ...It is already too far down "the slippery slope". Frown

With my humble apologies,

Tim (Reinettes).

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jafar
549 Posts
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14
February 16, 2022 - 8:21 pm

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on this one.  This is an apple that wouldn't exist but for a breeding program, and I think we're better for having it.  

And the patent holder, Washington State University, isn't trying to keep it under wraps.  

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fOrisca
NYC USA
1 Posts
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15
February 17, 2022 - 12:13 am

Wow, what juicy apples 

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DanielW
Clark County, WA
518 Posts
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16
February 17, 2022 - 6:40 am

jafar said
Daniel, obviously you are doing something right.  Mine hasn't flowered yet.

  

Jafar, it's on M27.  Maybe it's the rootstock.  I was looking at it yesterday - looks like sone nice flower buds.  If they are, I want to leave a few on the mini-tree this time. 

As for patents, I just want to know what are my restrictions.  I have no doubt I can harvest, use, and share my apples.   Propagation is more confusing, but I don't intend to propagate any patented plants.  My philosophy is, there are hundreds of historic or apple varieties that are no longer patented that I can grow and eat.  Cosmic Crisp probably is a great one!  But I love having the chance to grow and savor so many others, too.

One thing about Cosmic C is it really is a beautiful looking apple.  I also expect them to be excellent long keepers.

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jafar
549 Posts
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17
February 17, 2022 - 11:04 am

Daniel, I posted that link before reading most of it.  When I went back and read, I see that apparently physical appearance of the fruit is their first screen.  While I like beautiful apples, that's a little disappointing to me, that there may be better overall apples in that orchard, that aren't as cute, and will never see the light of day, so to speak.

I also don't need apples that can get to monstrous proportions.

Cosmic Crisp seems to be a bit of a freak, in that it nailed so many parameters at once, including keeping really long, and not oxidizing when cut, which I think are also now requirements for big commercial cultivars.

My Cosmic Crisp is on a more vigorous rootstock.  I usually choose M26, which is much more vigorous than M27, and my Cosmic Crisp is more vigorous than M26.  I think its on MM106 from Raintree.

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
370 Posts
(Offline)
18
February 17, 2022 - 4:41 pm

Jafar said:

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on this one.  This is an apple that wouldn't exist but for a breeding program, and I think we're better for having it.  And the patent holder, Washington State University, isn't trying to keep it under wraps.  

Jafar, my friend,

It is your prerogative to disagree with my opinion.  That's called dialogue and exchange of ideas.  While I haven't tasted 'Cosmic Crisp', and don't plan on buying one, someone may offer me a slice and I might very well find it to be "exquisite".  My point is that just by making a cross, and producing a hybrid, doesn't give a human or a corporate entity ownership rights over the inherent genes represented, which were natural genes and which the breeders didn't "create".  The history of plant development through selection over the millennia has involved a cumulative effort of countless generations of people.  Why is it that within the past 70 years or so, people get to "Patent" and take ownership over genetic diversity?  Why not create a good quality hybrid, from previously unpatented apples, and release it unpatented?  To my mind it is an affront to The Commons of natural diversity that we all inherited from those who preceded us.

It's just my opinion, Jafar, and I respect your stance on the matter. Smile

Tim

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GH
Battle Ground, WA
76 Posts
(Offline)
19
February 17, 2022 - 8:00 pm

JeanW, Thanks for the information concerning how long Cosmic Crisp will last on the tree.  Maybe this year there will be enough apples to leave a few for experimentation.  It would be nice to go out on Thanksgiving day and pluck one fresh off of the tree.  Is yours on M.106 rootstock also?

It has the potential to become one of my favorite apple trees.  It certainly seems to be checking a lot of boxes: disease resistance, great taste/texture, and long storage.  Another plus for me is that it ripens in September, since a lot of my apples ripen in October into early November.  The fact that it's a beautiful apple is an unnecessary but nice bonus.

I don't mind at all that, as a Washington state resident, my tax dollars paid for this apple.  I'm happy that Washington State University has made it available to all residents of the state and not just to commercial growers.  Eventually it will be available to everyone, but I don't remember the timeline for that.

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jafar
549 Posts
(Offline)
20
February 17, 2022 - 8:20 pm

Reinettes said
...Why not create a good quality hybrid, from previously unpatented apples, and release it unpatented?  To my mind it is an affront to The Commons of natural diversity that we all inherited from those who preceded us...

  

I believe the apple breeding program is a commercial endeavor.  People are getting paid to systematically breed apples to create new varieties, its their day job for which they are compensated.  That seems like a reasonable thing to do, and spend money on.

I'm not trying to convince you, just explaining my point of view.

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
629 Posts
(Offline)
21
February 17, 2022 - 9:03 pm

I believe we live in a fair and just society too Jafar. Those like us see those in jail or that are prone to losing lawsuits have thought otherwise. Not you Tim, I don't know you, so I don't mean you in this.

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DanielW
Clark County, WA
518 Posts
(Offline)
22
February 18, 2022 - 7:50 am

Cosmic Crisp® is patented as "WA38", US Plant Patent number 24210P3. Patent Info.  Patent was filed and granted in 2012, so we are halfway to patent expiration in 2032 if I understand correctly.

The other consideration is trademark.  As long as the university continues to maintain its trademark, we won't be able to propagate and sell Cosmic Crisp® apple trees without permission, or sell their fruits as Cosmic Crisp® apples without permission.  After 2032 we should be able to propagate and sell them under other names, such as "Cosmo" or whatever.  As long as that name isn't taken.

I'm not a lawyer, so please take all of that with a grain of salt.

Also, anyone who wants to cross Honeycrisp apple flowers with Enterprise apple flowers, grow the seeds and select for traits you like, is free to do so.  That is the cross that produced Cosmic Crisp®, although if I remember correctly, the variety was chosen from among hundreds of seedlings in the university's plots.  That does not infringe the plant copyright, because every offspring is genetically unique, so none will be exact copies of the patented variety.  Also, you can pollinate Cosmic Crisp® with any other apple and grow out the seedlings, but those are pretty much no chance at all of being just like the parent, other than carrying on various traits in combination with the other parent, sort of like how Jonagold has traits of Jonathan and Golden Delicious.  Or like Cosmic Crisp® has traits from both of its parents.  I think crossing with Golden Delicious to create a CosmoGold would be fun, or with Sweet-16 for some cherry flavor Smile.

I feel fortunate that, as a WA resident, I can grow this variety in my yard and see if I like it as a home grown fruit, plus as a home stored one. 

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jafar
549 Posts
(Offline)
23
February 18, 2022 - 11:29 am

Daniel, I believe what you've posted is correct.  I don't mind the trademark names, as long as its clear what the underlying cultivar is.  

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
629 Posts
(Offline)
24
February 18, 2022 - 1:11 pm

DanielW said
Cosmic Crisp® is patented as "WA38", US Plant Patent number 24210P3. Patent Info.  Patent was filed and granted in 2012 ...

The patenting system allows a way to get fair amount of information for free. 

Let's say for example that the member 1Jack1 who created this topic lived in Washington and (or otherwise) under the assumption got permission from the legal team that created the patent, then, if 1Jack1 was engineering a home orchard architecture he "could" then opt for organic apples with out having to use apple bags for codling moths. So if he were to have the Cosmic Crisp agreement secured for the fee he would likely need to pay the team if he wasn't in Washington then here is one possible free use of patent information as follows.

"He" would find flowering date information per the link Daniel posted in the following steps;

Patent info specific to date of flowering

Now assuming "he" has discovered that the cultivar is not capable to self pollinate and other apple trees in his territory are average flowering types, then he has (due to the assistance of patent) found a way to control codling moth without needing bags. 

There are a couple of required ways of having this "breakup" of the codling moth population cycle.

Try learning how to prune an apple flowering vase in water from another donor apple cultivar, sugar coat it with a light dilution of honey so bees won't miss it (per goodfruit dot com tips seen online) a donor apple branch from another cultivar. 

As complex as it seems to explain here, at least once in place --such a system is enough to maintain control of any favorite fruit the natural way. (of course the neighbors new planting of an ornamental apple could mess it upFrown)

This is exactly what's good about a patent is that there are wins for more than one party and plus the fact that it speeds product development faster than without patents.

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
370 Posts
(Offline)
25
February 18, 2022 - 4:58 pm

Smile  Believe me, all of you.  I sincerely appreciate your differing opinions on the matter, and I fully respect them.  I guess that it's just a matter of my own moral code which I guess tilts more toward egalitarianism.  I'm left to think about the earlier folks who produced a classic apple, but they weren't paid for the effort, it wasn't their job but their passion, and they didn't receive royalties or residuals for all of the subsequent generations of people who grew that apple, or ate it, or who cultivated it as a commercial crop....  Just sayin'. Wink

Tim (Reinettes).

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jafar
549 Posts
(Offline)
26
February 18, 2022 - 5:31 pm

The patent is only valid for 20 years from the application date.  It isn't preventing generations from using it.

That's different from the Club Apples.  It isn't the patent that keeps them exclusive, its the Trademarks and grower agreements. 

Once the patent on WA38 expires, Daniel and I are free to share scions with whomever we choose.

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
370 Posts
(Offline)
27
February 18, 2022 - 5:51 pm

Hi Jafar,

"Only" 20 years is nearly the traditional definition of "a (human) generation", which is generally regarded as 25 years.  I was just trying to make my point, but God knows that there are countless non-patented apples out there which are more than worthy of home cultivation but don't have limitations put on them and can freely be passed on to others.  Mine was more a philosophical/moral point than anything.  For those of you growing 'Cosmic Crisp', please, enjoy!  ...I yam what I yam.  It's just me.  

I will not begrudge you the flesh and flavor of 'Cosmic Crisp'.  It is your right as a free American. Smile

Let us all now enjoy what we savour.

Tim (Reinettes).

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DanielW
Clark County, WA
518 Posts
(Offline)
28
March 10, 2022 - 12:13 pm

For what it's worth, I included a few Cosmic Crisp in my most recent  order from Safeway.  I though they were among the best grocery store apples I've ever eaten.  

I didn't like most fresh apples when I was growing up.  Each year, my family would buy some from the local orchard - rural Illinois.  In retrospect, those might have been Jonathans.  I did enjoy those,  It wasn't until I started growing my own that I really enjoyed apples.  But those CC - I really enjoyed those.  I think they got it right.

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
370 Posts
(Offline)
29
March 10, 2022 - 6:15 pm

DanielW,

Until I joined the HOS and had a chance to taste an incredible diversity of apple varieties, I was basically clueless as to the wondrous diversity of apple tastes and characteristics.  When your hat pops off your head at that kind of discovery, you just want to keep exploring!  I will forever be thankful to the HOS.

Reinettes.

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GH
Battle Ground, WA
76 Posts
(Offline)
30
March 11, 2022 - 9:43 pm

Our local New Seasons Market had some lovely organic Cosmic Crisp apples this week, as pretty as mine and somewhat larger.  They're very tasty, almost as good as the Cosmic Crisp apples off of my tree last September.  

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jafar
549 Posts
(Offline)
31
March 12, 2022 - 10:19 am

GH, another vote for the New Seasons Cosmic Crisp.

The last couple years Cosmic Crisp had been quite variable, and I was a little shy of them.  I got some from New Seasons this year and they were fantastic.  Got from a couple other places with mixed results, some with texture problems and lower brix.  Another few from New Seasons, also great.  Hopefully they will be consistent. 

My general impression has been that very dark red are more consistently good.  And I suspect storage conditions and how long they have been out at room temperature matter.  

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