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Bud grafting-blog
Rick Shory
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John S
PDX OR
2849 Posts
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1
July 10, 2023 - 7:53 pm

I like this guy's blog. I've met him briefly.  He knows a lot about growing fruit and his ideas are intriguing.  He bud grafts starting about now, and says it's the best time. He also says to not put the bud in your mouth. You will have fewer takes that way.  Check it out.

https://rickshory.wordpress.co.....-grafting/

John S
PDX OR

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
798 Posts
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2
July 10, 2023 - 10:50 pm

Thanks John for posting his blog about budding. In 2022 the budding was the only kind if grafting that I did around the area because I mostly do stone fruits and I bring my frozen scions all out of freezing around February/March. Which was too early last year because of cooler and wetter conditions. So at least the budding in June and there after worked. As Shory points out in his commentary of budding that this shield budding we do in July is to keep an almost summer dormant tree from pushing new growth until the next springs pruning. As much as I agree with that I also agree with my June success rates when followed by forcing cuts in July pruning, but it has been my experience to aim placement on the stock below the current seasons growth. 

Variables such as weather and different fruit types that vary in sap pressure are reasons why there's such a thing as early bud failures when doing stone fruits outdoors. This is where looking at the surrounding conditions that contribute to speed of rootstock growth come in. Sometimes a tree is growing too fast is not good to graft anywhere too low to the ground and forcing it adds to that risk. 

Right now in midnight sun Alaska my pushing buds of chokecherry will grow out soon and first frosts occur in 5 more weeks. They survive but with artificial snow covering on all newer shoots so they harden off close to the ground. Which is bending the rootstock down 6 feet in some cases.

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John S
PDX OR
2849 Posts
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July 12, 2023 - 8:45 am

He always takes the stem off completely after making the bud graft, which is something i haven't done.  We'll see if it helps this year.

 

John S
PDX OR

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
798 Posts
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4
July 13, 2023 - 3:26 am

Who is the onef? Shory states in website words it's left on for that year. I am always stating cutting off two weeks after. Shory states he tried once cutting it in the two week window but that it was only once and most failed. Mine is perfected too but more tight of a window in that everything must be budded (day 0), partially cut back (day 4-6), and fully cut back to the bud (day 12-15). 

It's actually quite tricky trying to leave stone fruits buds in the dormancy all the way from July into spring bud swell but it's something I haven't played with very much. Shory must be having his good luck mostly from the apples or pear types which keep their buds without issues that the stone fruit buds have in that way for so long.

Dave Griffin (late) was the plum budder from MN who I was referring to and who had to change from Shory's easy way to the tighter window to save bud loss.

So I didn't intend to sound offensive about who it was of us you referred but I just didn't know.

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John S
PDX OR
2849 Posts
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5
July 14, 2023 - 10:12 am

What I'm saying is that he takes the stem completely off of the new bud before wrapping with parafilm. 

I have written on here that I often cut back the tree to just above the bud in the spring. With the buds that look ok but haven't taken yet, it is a practice that is often successful.

John S
PDX OR

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
798 Posts
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6
July 15, 2023 - 10:44 am

Thankyou for making it clear. The website does make it understandable through illustrations that the downward push of the shield should not occur on the bud itself so Shory's site with the missing leaf stem removed, that the push should occur there. I like the idea. It comes down to what methods of many are safest to keep the only growing point of the shield that can't be pushed on that needs to be protected intact.

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
798 Posts
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August 24, 2023 - 1:39 pm


Here is a bud done on July 9.


Same bud pictured on August 15.

The main difference here are variances from Rick Shory in timing and forcing. Sometimes getting results fast is important in experiments because public funding given out for research usually does not allow for many years.

In my case (even though I am not public funded) I have proved one point. Upon grafting in the last half dozen+ years using two species of cherry that are not recognised as related very much, that (as rare as it seems) through enough effort a graft compatable combination can be discovered. In which prunus padus can live years and years on prunus pennsylvanica and still remain strong, productive and hardy in interior Alaska.

My original experimenting in this combination was disecected then removed this year and no graft problems were discovered. This bud graft is to replace the disected one that no longer exists. 

I agree with Rick Shory and everything on his budding page as he demonstrates it but again there sometimes comes a need to push the time frame so things happen faster. Or we, as kind of objects of society, can become kind of out-lived by these trees.

Typically my time frame is June for this idea of forcing, and the negative in it is it does not give our volunteers a window to teach children or students in school as such due to scheduling and breaks etc.

Chokecherry fruits (ie. from padus) are in the planning stages as far as the seeds are concerned as there are possibly epigenetic changes that occur through seeds via the mentor graft method as kind of a side note here.

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jafar
787 Posts
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8
August 24, 2023 - 9:35 pm

Cool.  Did you force the bud by a heading cut above it?

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
798 Posts
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9
August 25, 2023 - 12:07 am

Yes it was headed back as a necessary step to force this.

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
798 Posts
(Offline)
10
August 25, 2023 - 12:16 am

Well actually it was cut in two stages. The first is removal of all tips of growing points that are above the graftrd bud 4-7 days subsequent to grafting. The second is removal right close to above the bud about 7 days after the first cut. The rest of the procedure of the graft itself as you know is well illustrated in the link John supplied.

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jafar
787 Posts
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11
August 25, 2023 - 4:46 pm

I wasn't familiar with that two stage heading process to force the bud, but it makes a lot of sense.

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
798 Posts
(Offline)
12
August 26, 2023 - 10:40 am

Forcing buds has another speedy application. I went back into history and pulled up a several year old plum rootstock I posted about. The picture I illustrated that's the last post under "Green Grafting Tip" blog was intended as just that. Speed.

The image I pulled is linked here is 96 inches of current seasons growth in one season and then flowering and plums the next season. Just note that it must meet certain conditions to acheive that kind of speed to get plums that fast.

It needs a green bud starting out from a mature portion of a tree. Only certain cultivars that are very promiscuous will reliably work in that first year such as that 'owen t' plum in the link. The rootstock may have to be two years old or older, and if it's in a 2 gallon pot as above then miracle grow and magnesium is necessary.

One nice plum that I know that's as promiscuous as own t is 'sugar twist'. I like sugar twist more as well.

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