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Best Semi-dwarf rootstock for heavier apple scions?
Best Semi-dwarf rootstock for heavier apple scions?
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Dannytoro1
66 Posts
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1
November 6, 2023 - 7:49 am

Looking at varieties of scionwood for the coming season and I notice many I want are like Waltana, Twenty Once, Mutsu, King of TC, Fireside and Sierra Beauty are big apples.

But my potential slave labor{family} are mostly not tall other then myself and our 2 Son in laws. So I'm leaning to 40-50% of standard rootstocks. That can take the weight of these varieties. I'm also on decidedly well draining sandy loam here.

Your suggestions are highly appreciated as I value your superior experiences.

Basically I want to establish a pilot orchard to help test local demand. With the ultimate goal of developing a Co-op with other fruit growers for processing crops.{Blueberry, nut and Blackberry growers mostly}.

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John S
PDX OR
2868 Posts
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2
November 8, 2023 - 8:45 am

I don't have any specific recommendations on names of semi-dwarf rootstocks, but the idea makes sense to me.  I have grafted large triploid apples (Karmijn da Sonnaville, I think) onto dwarf rootstock, and had a set of apples snap off the graft below the graft. Also, the apples weren't yet ripe, so I lost the tree and the apples. 

Also, I have grafted onto unnamed seedling stock and ended up with a lot more pruning than I wanted, nearly every year.

John S
PDX OR

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Dannytoro1
66 Posts
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3
November 8, 2023 - 1:01 pm

Wow. That is what I was worried about. I'd like to avoid it if possible.

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
803 Posts
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4
November 9, 2023 - 8:05 pm

One nice way to have apple harvesting that you can reach is finding the right kind of cultivar which gives good crotch angles but if the cultivar of choice is not culinary then it requires grafting skills and thus more patience. Mark is one that's reportedly good at crotches and the extra cropping weight that is not culinary.

The upload is a chance find of an apple that's not mine at all. It's there to show that some apples such as Mark just happen to show up as just right for scaffold building as such. 

Ultra dwarfing is something I can't agree much with anyways since as one of us mentioned some time back that dwarfing apples cause such things as anthracnose disease.

I do know of one low chill spreading apple that has good crotch angles by the name 'Palmetta'. It is around but so is 'Mark'.

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Dannytoro1
66 Posts
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5
November 10, 2023 - 8:32 am

Thanks Rooney. That tree in the picture certainly looks to have a strong central leader. 

I see doing more research into "crotching" is something I will benefit from.

I definitely think where you buy matters a lot. My TSC "Anna's" are a bit off putting. More or less being tall with leaves only at the top. And a couple of red leafed suckers on the bottom. There are a lot of buds popping up above the graft now though.

My others are Nursery bought Dorset Golden's and they really have got me hooked on the beauty of an apple tree. Nice classic form. I intended to add some "Tropic Sweet's" but they were gone by the time I got back to the Nursery.

Those will be the extent of my "Summer Tropical" apples. But all of these trees are on M111. So they will not be small.

I'm envious of all you folks in Apple Paradise. So many cultivars available.

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Dannytoro1
66 Posts
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6
November 11, 2023 - 9:29 am

Rooney I have looked at "Mark" and it seems like something very tilted to what I want to do. However my soil is not a match for it from what I've read so far.

 

It makes me wonder is I can dig a bigger hole and drop in a soil to it's liking. A bit more labor. But I think I will plant a few straight "Mark" rootstocks and see how they grow.

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
803 Posts
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7
November 12, 2023 - 12:34 am

Still true to it's reputation after looking at vendors of Mark were stating low/spreading, but I have no experience from any others with that one. Palmetta on the other hand is from this northern gardner and collector (see link further down) of about 30 kinds of malus and which his does keep a very open spreading tree. I have this onto my winter banana/m26 tree and a few other various pyrus kinds in the heights, but not invidually on any pyrus on purpose in case I need that insurance against incompatability some day. One like mine is that knows where the best angle of development or course to grow is -I'm thinking must be rare.

Much of the data I presented is an echo of between Victor (ie. 30 cultivars guy)  here on Ken's Wordpress site and a username of Igor anyways, but Igor lists as well there of a 50% malus bacatta on that, a wild species well noted for fireblight resistance, would this not be what's necesssary there? Highly vigorous is the possible last aspect, and not very culinary half or some years either, but I already stated that.

Lastly, Mark rootstocks are also well studied being on M111 as interstem sections of varying lengths, the longer the Mark the more the dwarfing effect, which may suit these objectives of yours.

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Dannytoro1
66 Posts
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8
November 12, 2023 - 4:03 am

Rooney said
Still true to it's reputation after looking at vendors of Mark were stating low/spreading, but I have no experience from any others with that one. Palmetta on the other hand is from this northern gardner and collector (see link further down) of about 30 kinds of malus and which his does keep a very open spreading tree. I have this onto my winter banana/m26 tree and a few other various pyrus kinds in the heights, but not invidually on any pyrus on purpose in case I need that insurance against incompatability some day. One like mine is that knows where the best angle of development or course to grow is -I'm thinking must be rare.

Much of the data I presented is an echo of between Victor (ie. 30 cultivars guy)  here on Ken's Wordpress site and a username of Igor anyways, but Igor lists as well there of a 50% malus bacatta on that, a wild species well noted for fireblight resistance, would this not be what's necesssary there? Highly vigorous is the possible last aspect, and not very culinary half or some years either, but I already stated that.

Lastly, Mark rootstocks are also well studied being on M111 as interstem sections of varying lengths, the longer the Mark the more the dwarfing effect, which may suit these objectives of yours.

  

Fireblight can be a problem here. Based on other fruits we have. But not so bad if you supplement some copper in the spring. The only sucking insects we have an issue with is aphids cultivated by ants. A bit of heavy food grade grease low on the trunk stops those.

IMO...Flies are our biggest curse. It really pays to spray during bloom time. They really put a hurt on the plums.

Oh no! Interstem! I read such conflicting information on the internet on it. Satan's Child some say. Best thing since Bread says others...lol

I find You tube entertaining for the things you can do to apple trees. Frankentrees are amazing IMO. Not sure I want one apart from chip budding some crab buds to help pollinize.

Folks on grafting on a bare bone budget are fascinating as well. And still manage to make beautiful trees.

I want some Greenmantle Etter's. I suppose I should order a few trees on Mark while it's still available.

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