Joe, good question. For me, a limiter has been summer heat. It unfortunately took several years after planting sweet seeded grapes before I learned they wouldn't ripen for me in these hills " title="Crying or Very sad" /> I've several kinds of seedless grapes, they all ripen fine - if we can only beat the birds to them. But several years ago I was Blown-away by the flavor of a neighbor's wine grapes!

As I'm surrounded by 3 vineyards / wineries, all Fall they're chasing migratory Robin's with propane blast cannons. One particularly bad year I complained to the worst offender; he invited me to check out his damage. When I returned he'd picked two 5 gallon buckets of wine grapes, Chardonnay, and Pinot Gris. He said 'they should make good jelly,' but as they were small and seedy I wasn't very impressed.

...Until I got home and began chomping on them. WOW They were addictive! With my own grapes ripe and a yard full of fresh fruit I coveted those grapes more than any fruit I had. I'd chop right through the seeds, spitting out any that remained after a good swallow. I remember heading outside each day to bend over the yard while chomping these sweet flavorful juicy grapes. Funny, I don't remember which I preferred..? I do remember not sharing them, while fearfully monitoring their decreasing level in the wooden boxes of our secondary refrigerator...

I've given thought to replacing some of mine with these wine grapes, but my vines are so well established, they're like children of sorts... But I've recommended them to family and friends contemplating grapes -- but - nobody wants seeds! I guess it only stands to reason an industry based on competitive flavors would have found the best. I've since seen both verities at a local nursery... but I've not acted upon, nor had any more of these marvelous grapes since.