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Apples in the Southeast USA
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caseroj
53 Posts
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1
June 2, 2016 - 7:51 am

 Hi,

 

I would like to start a discussion about growing apples in the Southeastern United States.  I have heard the entire Eastern US is a bad place for apples and pears because of fireblight.   However, while visiting upstate NY (Rochester and Webster) during a business trip a few years ago I saw plenty of apple orchards in the area.   I have family who grew up in New York City and they used to always complain about the very hot and humid summers in the state.  Moreover, the region of upstate NY I was visiting had lots of large lakes in the area.  All of this would suggest to me high humidity in the summer for New York state yet apples seem to grow fine there.  In fact the company I visited has two dwarf antique apple trees growing on their campus.  One of my co-workers urged me to pick some apples and try them out which I did.  I have to say they were the best apples I have ever tasted.  They were not very big but what they lacked in size they more than made up for in flavor.   So clearly you can grow apples in the East Coast of America so why is everyone saying that growing apples in your backyard in the Southeast is a fools game.  

 

Thanks.

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Medicine
6 Posts
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June 2, 2016 - 6:53 pm

Have you read Lee Reich? He has a few good books. He is a master fruit grower (organically) and he struggles to grow apples. He blames his micro-climate. See his blog for more details. 

Certain types of apples grow like crazy in the upper peninsula of Michigan and in Maine without human intervention. Not sure how they taste though. 

 

when I went to a horse pull in Virginia there was a family there who had ancient apple tree varieties in a book and for sale if interested. 

 

Did Thomas Jefferson have Apples in Virginia?

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Viron
1400 Posts
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June 3, 2016 - 7:54 pm

Great question, for me!  ...I spent last summer out East, beginning in SW Virginia (in the Blue Ridge Mountains), then Oct. & Sept. in Washington DC.   While there, I toured Mount Vernon, and there were still-developing apples ...along with what I assumed were young ‘replacement trees’ grafted from original orchard plantings.  What impressed me most about the Mount Vernon farm were the most beautiful and disease-free espaliered fruit trees I’ve ever seen.  Plums, cherries, pears and of course, apple's - all in great shape - and unlike the ‘main orchard,’ protected from deer...  

I bought a place in SW VA, wintered in Portland (my hometown), then arrived back here in early April -- and began planting fruit trees!  Actually, I pruned first … as my immediate neighbors have two of few apple trees in the area, and I felt compelled to tune them up.  The largest, sad to say, is a Transparent; the second, they don’t know ..and don’t like.  I’m considering shipping a few to our HOS ID Team back home.. or should I say Oregon, as my current home is now Virginia.

I’d actually asked the near identical question 'out here,' as well as having started a similar discussion thread … and was immediately informed there are apple orchards all over the East!  They have festivals, and of course, there’s Jefferson’s Monticello (with apple trees I'm told), which I’ve yet to see..  Guess I’ve just not met the right people over here yet ..as there appears to be no counterpart to the Home Orchard Society, yet.

DC was fruitless … other than several American Persimmon trees I’d walk by, loaded and going to waste.  And whenever I’d ask about their lack of fruit trees (amid million dollar homes) ..I’d be told what ‘Wonderful Farmer’s Markets they have!’  ...if only we all could afford them..  I think I’d actually paid $4 a pound for what appeared to be tree ripened Japanese plums…  I was fruit starved!

So far, I’ve only observations to go by.  We’ve a fairly well-stocked local plant nursery just down the road, they know me well ...that guy from Oragone with all the questions about fruit trees ..I suspect.  So having arrived ‘late,’ they’d potted up their bare root trees and most were leafed out.  Not wanting to waste a season, I took notes, researched, and started buying & digging.  Don’t think my neighbors are all that thrilled about the 6 fruit trees, two grapes (W/ 5 posts) and 15 multi-trunked arborvitae I’ve planted - but I am!

What I found through online searches was that this little long-time local nursery is selling ‘what works’ in this region.  And along with an even older nursery I'd spotted a few towns over - so far, I’ve two apples; an Asian pear, Euro pear, 'local' Jap. plumb, and a hybrid Asian-American Persimmon (bread in Russia).  And, we've a local herd of deer ...thus more has been spent on steel posts and galvanized chickenwire than trees…  

I’d met ‘the right guy’ - in that he was also nuts over fruit - also browsing a Lowe's plant dept; they had nothing but Hachiya Persimmon fruit trees, maybe 20 of them!  I couldn't stay quiet, which began a bull-session with this guy lasting over an hour, and through one massive downpour!  He’s been ‘doing it all’ in his backyard in Christiansburg, VA, about 20 miles N. of me, at 2,000 feet; I’m at 2,500…  He ‘called my phone’ - or so we thought, as to exchange contact info - but I received nothing, and he likely got a wrong number.  All I got was his first name ..that I can’t recall!  

This guy is growing Kiwi, figs, seedless grapes, Pawpaws - and was picking out a persimmon or two … and of course grew the usual suspects - on a city lot!  I was so ready for that tour… He mentioned several nurseries, one being ‘Edible Landscaping,’ which I’d heard of, ‘up north’ near Monticello.  ...We’ve got a lot of organic gardeners around my new little town of Floyd ... and I’m doing my best to connect with them, but have been quite pinned down planting, and sorting through the largest Penske truck’s worth of stuff out from Oregon.  

...sorry to have gotten so wound up, but apparently, fruit growing remains a passion of mine..  

More observations: it rains a lot!  All during Summer, and when it rains, it truely pours!  But, no one waters their lawns, hardly water their gardens, and well-water is pure and plentiful.  And with the eventual evaporation, there’s humidity.  - But there are also Lightening Bugs!

I’ve watched ‘Bagworms’ develop and devour portions of hardwood limbs and leaves, and am not sure what’s causing some limited and sporadic dieback on the neighbor’s Transparent apple tree … but so far my mix is holding up to the pounding rains, occasional wind and humidity impressively well..  And Grapes grow wild in their forests!  I’ve seen vines as big around as your arm heading 60 feet into the canopy ... and their foliage is lush and disease free.  

Hey - I’ll try to watch this thread, and add to it as I learn more about these beautiful Appalachian hills & hollers ...hope you do the same Smile

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caseroj
53 Posts
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June 3, 2016 - 7:55 pm

I had not heard of Mr. Reich before.  I did a quick search online and found out he was a former researcher for the USDA.  It is hard to understand why he can't grow apples in his property in upstate NY.   I know that when I visited that area apple orchards were ubiquitous.  I would tend to agree with his assertion that it must be the micro-climate of his property.  Florida is a humid environment but my house is situated at the intersection of two streets in such a way that one segment of my back yard lot is constantly exposed to windy conditions.   Believe it or not but I have two Moorpark apricots growing in the area of the relatively high winds that are leafing out beautifully.  I also have a Royal Blenheim apricot nearby that is doing well.   About 50 feet away though another section of my property shielded by my house has much less moving air.  Consequently I see more evidence of fungus in the leaves of the trees I have planted there.  It is where my apples and a pair of apriums are located.  So I can definitely understand how micro-climates can be a big deal with growing fruit trees.

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caseroj
53 Posts
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June 3, 2016 - 8:17 pm

For my part I have the following apples on my property (USDA zone 9b)

 

1. Tropic Sweet Apple

2. Anna Apple

3. Dorsett Golden Apple

4. Red Fuji Apple

5. Pink Lady Apple (aka Cripps Pink)

I have on order the following two more apples 

6. Granny Smith

7. Gala

The specimens in 4-7 are grafted onto EMLA-111 root stock.  Supposedly this is good for both dry soils and heavy soils.  Since I have some clay in my area I am thankful for it.  Tomorrow I will post some pictures of the two apples on my Anna tree and the three ones developing on my Dorsett Golden.   There are a lot of  resources out on the internet that suggests growing apples in the east coast is not so difficult.  Here are a few

 

http://www.houzz.com/discussio.....0#17593581

https://kuffelcreek.wordpress......rootstock/

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg073

 

The last link I would take with a grain of salt.  I have no problem with UF/IFAS (my alma matter) but they are conflicted here because the Tropic Sweet is their patented derivative of Anna.  I have seen plenty of anecdotal evidence that other varieties of apple could do well in the southeast and in Florida where I live.

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Medicine
6 Posts
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June 4, 2016 - 7:26 am

Definitely buy Lee Reich books and read his blog. 

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caseroj
53 Posts
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June 7, 2016 - 12:19 pm

Here are some pictures of my Anna Apple (right) and Dorset Golden Apple (left).

 

Dorsett_Golden_Apple.jpgAnna-Apple.jpg

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John S
PDX OR
2800 Posts
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June 27, 2016 - 4:26 pm

Caseroj,

From what I've heard, you are growing some of the best low chill apples available.
John S
PDX OR

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caseroj
53 Posts
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9
June 27, 2016 - 7:14 pm

Hi John,

Yes these three Dorsett Golden, Ann, and Tropic Sweet are very low chill apples.  The Tropic Sweet is a University of Florida/IFAS (Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences) derivative of Anna.   I can tell you that my favorite of the three is the Anna.  The tree is remarkably hardy and a productive even at such a young age.  I tried the Anna apple that was growing on that tree this past weekend.  I pulled it a bit green before it had any red blush on it.  Well I can say it was mildly sweet and a bit tart at the same time.  Very much like a mild granny smith.  I have read in some forums that the Anna apple if pulled before it fully ripens resembles a granny smith and I can tell you that it is true.   Beyond those three low chill varieties I also planted two Granny Smith and one Gala a few weeks ago.  The Granny Smith, Fuji, Pink Lady and Gala seem to like the Central Florida sunshine because they are doing really well.  I am not sure which one will be the most productive but if I had to bet on it now my money would be on the Anna.  I absolutely love that tree.   It is clearly going to be a heavy producer but apart from that it is also a beautiful tree to look at.   It is has healthy large green leaves, branches beautifully and is almost perfectly symmetrical.  It is hands down the most attractive tree in my home orchard.  I am also playing around with some southern variety (fireblight resistant) pears.  I have a Hood pear, a Flordahome pear (another UF/IFAS derivative) and a Baldwin pear.  The Hood and Flordahome pears are rated at between 150-200 chill hours and the Baldwin at 400-500.  My winters can easily meet the first two chill hour requirements but the last one is a bit of a stretch.  I think the micro-climate on my property might make it possible.  

Cheers.

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caseroj
53 Posts
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10
June 27, 2016 - 7:19 pm

Hey Viron,

 

Take a look at the following episode of Growing a Greener World online.  They talk about the Monticello estate and Jefferson's agricultural experiments.  As I understand it Jefferson also has some Moorpark Apricots planted in Monticello a couple of centuries ago.  I have two of these trees in my home orchard.  Not sure if I can meet the reported chill requirements for them to bear bruit but I can tell you they are doing much better than my Royal Bleheim Apricots.  Even if they don't produce fruit the Moorpark is a very handsome tree and I would be reluctant to remove them from the orchard.

 

http://www.growingagreenerworl.....jefferson/

 

Cheers.

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John S
PDX OR
2800 Posts
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11
June 29, 2016 - 5:26 pm

Hey Juan,

I have heard that Warren pear is blight resistant, but it is slow to bear fruit.
John S
PDX OR

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