After attending the most excellent graftfing class sponsored by HOS, I was really enthused and had at it with gusto. I think I did eight apple trees onto bare root stock, three pears onto bare root stock, and three plums. I also top-worked three apple trees, and added some grafts onto existing pear trees (twig/whip grafting).

At the grafting class, the instructors advocated using rubber bands. I however found it difficult to start and tie the damn things and further felt that I did not get a tight joint and that the joint lacked adequate support. As such I purchased grafting tape at Portland Nursery (Stark St). And because I found the 1/2 inch width cumbersome, I slit that tape in two -- to create two 1/4 inch widths that I found much easier to work with. None of this is applicable to someone doing grafting of a professional basis or for establishing a large orchard. I had time available and I am sometimes a bit of a perfectionist. I was really really pleased with the instruction I had obtained in the class and my own handiwork because before transplanting (from pots into the ground) the success rate of my whip grafts onto bare root stock was 100%.

I had a revelation after a period of time that the tape didn't have much stretch and that after a period of time it would effectively constrict growth and/or girdle the tree. This was when I was watching one of the bare root apple trees I had transplanted into the ground begin to whither and die. As plumfun recommended, I made a slit vertically through the layers of grafting tape and then repainted the incision with the yellow goop (Doc Farwell's grafting seal). The tree now stands dead.

So I went on-line, where at some county extension site, where it was recommended that the grafting tape be remove after a period of two to three weeks. At that point in time I freaked and began practicing surgery on each and every tree. I figured the slitting process didn't work so I attempted to remove as much as the grafting tape and the covering yellow goop as possible. As I had planted the trees into the ground, it meant I had to work laying down.

Needless to say, attempting to remove the grafting tape was no easy process. Recognize immediately that to attempt to remove any adhesive tape (masking, electrical, etc) you will need a very sharp tool -- even to the point of using razor blades. You effectively need to cut only the tape and not nick the bark -- precision surgery!!

The two to three week recommendation is completely unrealistic as I will attempt to explain. First off, I do not think that the tissue union between rootstock and scion has had sufficient time to successfully develop. If the adhesion of the tape to the bark was greater than the adhesion of the bark to the cambium layer (or is it -the cambium layer to the wood?), in attempting to remove the tape, I would peel back the bark to bare wood (which I concluded was not a good thing to do). It was a very slow and tedious process to cut down through the multiple layers of tape associated with the wrapping and the yellow goop made it even more so. A primary problem was the adhesive from the tape would begin to cling to my scalpel and the blade would then become all gummy. Peeling back the tape was tough and in most cases I could not completely remove it because to do so would tear the bark. I was only able to successfully remove all the tape on about three trees. The rest I had to settle for about a 60% removal. The trees will have to adapt. With all the trees, I then repainted with several applications more of the yellow goop to make sure everyting was sealed. This seemed to work even on the trees where I had inadvertantly pulled/separtated some of the bark from the wood in my attempt to remove tape.

In the process of removing the grafting tape and covering yellow goop on a whip graft onto an existing pear tree, I was able to successfully remove the tape without damaging the bark. However in the process of doing this, I put too much force on the graft union and it moved. That new tissue is really, really, soft and with that movement, I disrupted the newly formed tissue and the graft slowly, slowly whithered and died.

I noticed on about one-half of the trees that there was restriction of growth occurring where I had taped over the actual graft. The bark was depressed in those areas compared to the surrounding areas. It was obvious (at least laying down on the ground and eyeballing it from 4 inches away).

I am still not sold on the rubber band technique because of the two trees I obtained at the grafting class that used this technique, one of those trees died as well. And when I removed the green goop and rubber band from the other tree, the union at the joint was greatly distorted. The growth of new tissue in that area was very noticable with an estimated increase in size of 50%. This expansion at the graft is about comparable to the growth/tissue expansion that is evident on the top-worked trees I grafted using bark grafts on the top cut surface. All those grafts have been successful except for those where I went too far out on a limb (too far beyond the first bark grafts on other stems).

Needless to say, I have thought about how I can resolve the adhesive bond of tape to bark being greater than cambium layer to wood so that I can more easily remove the grafting tape on future grafts; and the only solution I can think of is to first wrap the whip graft area with a non-adhesive tape (eg. plastic survey tape). Maybe I just learn how to use rubber bands and better use my thoughts and energies on pie recipes.

And to fully disclose my success rate -- I have only lost two bareroot stock apple trees (one with grafting tape and the other with rubber bands - GO FIGURE). My three plum trees went belly up about ten days after transplanting. These were very thin scion so there may have been sufficient restriction that the grafts died or maybe too small to effectively transport sap. I am not so certain because there was rootstock foliage that died as well in the process. I may have planted them too close to a very large oak and my trust that the root stock was sufficiently armalleria (sp?) resistant too unrealistic. I will say that on several of the bareroot pear trees, I had my doubts about their survival during some of that early excessive heat we experienced. They however are now doing fine. And with regard to several of the apple trees, it appears that several/many things are feeding on the new leaves. I now have on the bottom part of the stem a tanglefoot coating and poultry netting cages surrounding them to deter either/or/both deer and bunnies. And from my garden, I have dusted the foliage with Dipel as well. As to the apple trees that died, it is entirely possible that the soils were not properly prepared, balanced and with the right amounts of nutrients and water (too much/too little).

I hope this helps and that I was not too excessive in my verbiage.

I want to make sure that there is no confusion about my previous statements.

To place a value judgment (wheich is better/best) on one system of wrapping versus another was not my intent. I was only attempting to convey my experience which as I indicated was extremely limited. Perhaps when the number of grafts I have successfully grown exceeds a thousand, I can be more definitive in suggesting a "better" method. I certainly defer to your (Viron's) experience and expertise.

My first and foremost concern was getting creating an acceptable joint between scion and rootstock or existing growth. I am by trade a joiner (woodworker) and within those traditions of joinery, there are various techniques, theories, and acceptable tolerance levels (accuracy). I made a great leap and attempted to transfer some of those principles to the grafts I was making. I have not had enough experience with scion grafting to understand the tolerance levels of appropriate wiggle rooms in grafting joinery.

If I can summarize my thinking in this regard, a tight joint/graft will not have any air-pockets that would permit drying or provide space for some pathogenic growth. I was also concerned with the mechanical strength of that joint/graft so that, clumsy individual that I sometimes am, would dislodge or damage the union (as existed on the pear graft I previously mentioned). And related to mechanical strength, I wanted to insure that surface to surface contact would be established and would remain. There is a large amount of cambium tissue at both ends of the cuts. A tight wrap, from my perspenctive would prevent separation/curling of those tip ends.

In my attempt to transfer my woodworking joinery methods to grafting, I also gave some thought to the possibilities to employ wood adhesives but that was just too extreme. I do understand that in woodworking that excessive clamping pressure will damage the wood and will cause a weak joint. Learning just how much pressure to apply is part of the knowledge that comes with experience. Remember that my grafting experience is very limited.

If you were cringing at the thought of me peeling back the tape, how do you think I felt actually doing it? I really was not a happy grafter during those moments. I was reacting to a situation where I conceivably had girdled the trees I was attempting to create; and therein all my investments in time and money would be rendered into compost. And that if I lost some, most or all of the trees because of my own inexperience/stupidity, I would have to wait another year in establishing a home orchard. I was attempting to be very very careful and precise in my surgical technique.

As to the tape I used, I purchased it at Portland Nursery and it is specifically indicated to be grafting tape. It is a cotton mesh with an approximate of 48 threads per inch (both weft and warp) coated on one side with a gummy adhesive; in appearance resembling medical bandage tape. It does have some stretch that I probably completely utilized in my wrapping.

Rightly or wrongly I thought it to be great stuff because it allowed me to create a neat, stong graft joint -- something that I was unable to achieve in my limited perceptions of the suitability/results in my two attempts (my first attempts at grafting in the HOS class I attended). What I did not realize were the potential problems that were to occur later on as the tree/scion graft union began to grow. I traded a more workable joint wrapping technique (tape versus bands) and in the process ended up with a real problem that would not have existed had I instead used bands. In short, I made a mistake and I hopefully have learned an important lesson.

It was again another example of Whitehead's Fallacy of Misplaced Concreteness -- that you cannot disregard certain data just because it doesn't fit into the simplistic theory you have created.

With my woodworking trade experience as well as a Masters of Science degree in Wood Technology and Utilization, we might debate at length your assertion that the only purpose of the tongue is mechanical. Those cuts are made into living tissue and from my perspective the cuts to form the tongue (in addition to the cut made to form the scarf [my woodworking joinery terminology]) exposes cambial tissue to cambial tissue (surface contact area) thus facilitating/increasing the potential number of sites for growth between cells of the scion and cells of the rootstock. That increased surface area also increases the friction between the two units being joined thus inparting some additional mechanical strength besides the angular forces associated with the angular differences between the angle of the scarf surface and the angle of the tongue surfaces.

The distortion of growth associated with the graft that was wrapped with a band is a good thing. Do not assume that I felt it was a problem. Quite realistically, this free form distorted growth showed that there was no restriction of growth associated with the use of bands. And since growth is what is supposed to occur, then it is a good thing. I did indicate that the grafting tape I used, when removed, showed that restriction was occurring between the wrapped area and in the tissue immediately adjacent to the wrapping.

I want to make it clear that no system is perfect -- and regarding having a nimble fingered daughter to transfer responsibility to is not an available option for me. My daughter is living in Heidelberg Germany and doing research on native bird egg incubation parameters. I do not know if I will completely abandon my utilization of grafting tape in favor of bands. I do know for a fact that I will definitely modify my technique. I will only wrap in one direction and not createl layers of opposing spirals; and it is very probable if I can accomplish it, I will leave a gap of exposed bark when I do the wrap so that the entire surface area is not enclosed. I also fully recognize that this procedure will remain inferior to grafting band techniques.

After all I am not getting graded on this and beyond the pleasure of eating home grown fresh fruit and pie, there is a satisfaction of creating an unique orchard, watching it grow and having a learning experience that forces me to actually use my brain. I have never been one to do exactly as I was told and I tend to test limits and try different things. I may eventually get to the same place, as if I had done it by the book the first time, but I would not have learned as much and had the same level of involvement. Besides what are you going to do when the current state of collapse in the world economy creates a situation where grafting bands are no longer available?

And why, as I am typing this reply message does the screen REPEATEDLY flip up to the beginning of my writing? It is most annoying.

I think it is reasonable to accept as a basic assumption that the cross section of a scion or branch perpendicular to the scion's axis is a circle. If for the sake of simplicity further let us assume that the scion is a perfect cylinder. Then to cut it at any angle other than perpendicular will create an ellipse.

Since the scion does not know before hand what the angle of the scarf cut (again relating to a whiip and tongue graft), we will have to assume that there is an even distribution of cambial cells around the circumferance of the scion at the inner bark layer. As the scarf cut is more longitudinal than axial, the longer flatter curved surfaces will have less cambial cells per unit of length than the ends of the ellipse where the curve is less stretched out and more approximates the original radius of the scion's (circular) perpendicualr cross section.

But the surface area of the cambial cells on the longer flatter curved surface of the ellipse have a greater area of exposed surface area than the cambial cells at the top and bottom of the scarf.

So my question is: In which area is the cross-linking bond more likely to form first and subsequently, will there be any difference in the growth rates in these two different parts of the ellipse?

The reason for asking such a theoretical question (for me) relates entirely to the appropriate and necessary tightness level of whatever wrapping (excluding cow dung) that a grafter should use. Remember my comment regarding that experience in woodworking taught me the appropriate clamping pressure for woodworking joints.

I accept that I probably wrapped the graft joint more tightly than was necessary; and that I used too much tape in the process (thus wrapping in one direction going up and wrapping in the opposite direction going down). This cross-banding makes for a very strong bandage but one without much potential for expansion.

As to whether the grafting tape is waterproof, I cannot answer that question. The adhesive certainly is but there is no coating on the cotton fibers. I would have been tempted to not smear it all up with yellow goop because without such encapsulation, the cellulose fiber would likely breakdown from sunlight/UV radiation in a short period of time; and being subjected to the growth stresses (expansion) of the underlying scion be strained and increase breakdown.

Cellulose fiber in the tape; cellulose fiber in the scion -- would the uncoated exposed tape become a site where a cellulosic pathogen (mold, bacteria, fungi) could become established and from there, enter into the cellulosic mattrix of the scion/branch/tree? How clean/sterile does a graft have to remain to both survive and so that the tree does not become infected?

In creating a successful graft, I assumed that the wrapping had to mechanically keep the two surfaces in intimate contact at all times and across the entire surface area of those surfaces. Likewise I assumed that I had to establish (more or less) a waterproof exterior so that there was no drying of those surfaces and that would permit wetting/transmission of a pathogen to the inner surfaces as well. It is apparent that cow dung is not "sterile" and I doubt if reeds/grasses (Egyptian or otherwise) would be waterproof or sterile. And if a reed/grass wrapping were applied, what would happen if the tensile strength of that material be greater (stronger) than the forces of growth and expansion. If the grass/reed was stronger and did not degrade sufficiently in a short period of time, that wrapping could effectively restrict growth and girdle the scion.

This is where doing thousands of grafts in different ways provides the wisdom of experience. and while not providing definitive statistically analyed hard data publishable in an obsqure peer-reviewed journal, that experience/experimentation might suggest some learned estimates.

Viron -- if you believe that the strength of your whip and tongue joints are sufficiently strong to remain joined, why not grap a "chaw" of fresh honeycomb and produce a partially masticated, warm and pliable mixture of beeswax and honey to seal the graft. The beeswax is waterproof and at cool temperatures rigid (thus capable of providing mechanical stregth and support). Raw honey has antibiotic characteristics. Would the sugars of the honey also provide glucose to the tree (remembering that the glucose mononmer is the basic unit of cellulose)? As to the properties and quality of your spit -- that is a question I cannot answer or want to begin to try. This wax/honey/spit combination is entirely natural and completely organic (even your spit). Its decomposition would not even create a mess. And any wandering honeybees would likely recycle the beeswax were they to find it. Perhaps after I get most of my trees established I can experiment !!!!!

I’m looking forward to the end result!
And that is: a bite of a crisp juicy sweet apple, pie, cobbler, sauce, baked apples, cider, vinegar, dried, apple blossom honey, a piece of whittling wood to make a child's toy, a warm fire to keep your toes warm in winter, wood to smoke hams and bacon. I remember a poster in a doctor's office that said that happiness is not a destination but the way to make the journery.

I think HOS and the people who make it up are absolutely super -- if their goal is to create many more home orchards and to continue the propogation (and enjoyment) of heirloom varieties, they are succeeding.

From scion I obtained this year at the Spring Fair, six of the eight bare root apple trees I "built" are still growing; as are the three pear on bare rootstock. The three plum did not survive transplantation (probably too close to a 275 year old Garry oak). I top-worked three apple trees and the scion growth on those is vibrant and hearty. I added 3 scion to existing pear trees (whip and tongue) and lost one scion -- that one being the one I moved the graft when I removed the grafting tape. Maybe the mortality I experienced had nothing to do with the grafts I made but were problems of transplant shock, improper soil conditions, too much watering, not enough watering, etc, etc. I had scion growth on all the bare rootstock grafts I made while those plants were in pots prior to final siting. Without HOS, I would never have either this opportunity or rate of success. Thank you ALL.

I have been to two scion exchanges and I hopefully will attend many more. I willingly volunteer for any task you think me capable of there.