I checked this book out from the library and totally enjoyed it. One decision that authors have to make is on how many varieties they will list. Warren Marnhart only listed a few in his "Apples for the 21st Century". Maybe 50. I think he made outstanding choices. Burford lists 200 or so. The problem is then that we don't get the crucial information on each one. For example, flavor and storage are crucial for me on each apple. If it is disease resistant, that's great, but if I don't want to eat that apple anyway, i won't grow it. I'm also growing more apples than I can eat, so Storage becomes crucial. I think that Burford does a good job, but by having so many varieties, he leaves out some crucial information on some of the apples. He is from an old apple growing family in the Virginia mountains, probably not far from where Viron is now residing.
Have any of you read this book?
John S
PDX OR
https://www.washingtonpost.com.....5daf2ded03
Yup… not far. What I’m finding around here (SW Virginia) are small orchards selling to local markets. Too small for commercial ‘oxygen purged refrigeration,’ They’re sold and used as ‘local’s’ have used them for a century. But I’ve yet to purchase a ‘crisp’ local apple…
So when Mr. Burford badmouths Washington (State’s) Red Delicious, if he’s comparing it to the local bag of Stayman’s (not S. Winesaps, but a parent) that I barely finished … give me a Big Red from Washington, please. I’d love to ingest a Hawkeye, or a Black Twig, though!
If ‘Heirloom Varieties’ are being commercially stored, their market is likely more toward the DC (big money) end of this region than where I’m located… Refusing to pay over $2 a pound for apples ..I may never know what’s most tasty around here! Glad you read the book though, John 
Seems the point of having a ‘Home Orchard’ is to have at hand more than what’s deemed commercial. But with “192 featured in his book,” without tempting descriptions on taste… that’s a lot of trees to sort through!
Here in VA, if on the Blue Ridge.. most home/ homestead apple trees are old and neglected, there seem few ‘new trees.’ So maybe I continue to be a freak of sorts ...finally ‘planting fruit trees for my grandchildren,’ but it often seems your ‘favorite apple’ is the last one you’ve eaten ..and if that’s fresh off your own tree - that’s the one I want!
...speaking of Heirlooms, this is pretty close to home ..your home: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/.....180961374/
John, I thought this book was excellent. I have it on kindle. I used several guides for choices of what scion to try - Burford's book, the Orange Pippin website - many varieties but limited info, the Fedco Scion Website - focuses on Maine and what they are offering in a particular year, but still very informative, and Apples of Uncommon Character, by Rowan Jacobsen.
My aim is bearing for many months, July to November if possible. plus long keepers for the winter. Also if possible, disease resistance. I suspect most apples, when home grown, will have flavor that outshines store bought, but I still like a variety of flavors so they don't get boring. I like the idea that I can taste the apple that someone loved eating 100 or 200 or more years ago, when sweet foods were much less common, and an apple was a real treat. My trees are mostly multi-grafts. Most are just getting up to bearing now, but I've been able to taste a few new ones. My multi-grafting a semi-dwarf or dwarf tree, I may not get bushels of a particular type, but if there are 10 or 20 apples of each type that should be more than enough. This year for the first time I tasted Queen Cox, Sutton's Pride, Gravenstein. Last year I tasted my first Pristine, Golden Sentinel, Scarlet Sentinel. All quite different and great in their own way.
Yes, Viron,
That's a great article and a great cause. Joanie is amazing. I would like to get out there and help more, but my kids keep my hands full. Maybe when I retire and my kids grow up I can help with that sort of thing. THe Temperate ORchard Conservancy. Tic TOC Tic TOC.
I pretty much do the same thing Daniel. I do find it interesting to note which heirlooms do well in which climate. I find Marnhart's "Apples for the 21st Century" particularly helpful for the PNW.
John S
PDX OR
Hey fellas, I’ve gotta describe my adventure yesterday, to Albemarle Cider Works https://www.albemarleciderworks.com/ ...there’s Jennie in the orchard with her blue loppers 
I’d been sponsored and transported by a friend who's attended several of their fruit tree workshops, I’m advising him on his home orchard and perhaps a larger venture into Heirloom Apples up my way (we likely had the longest drive). The workshop was on pruning, and led by Tom Burford. It worked well for me, due to their preference for modified central-leader apple trees; that’s not my prefered structure, but appears to work better for their commercial operation.
There was a solid turnout, with ‘our kind of folks!’ Mr. Burford was something.. At 82, every question led to far more than just an answer I really enjoyed his ..accent, which is likely the closest I’ll get to how Thomas Jefferson likely sounded. And having led such seminars myself for the Yamhill Co. OSU Extension program, it was nice to just listen, sip coffee and eat several of their GoldRush apples...
Into the orchard ..I joked with their lead pruner about how painful it is watching another pruner, prune… He agreed, as the person leading the field examples likely cut the opposite of what either of us would have.. But into their peach orchard, with its ‘vase shaped’ trees, I was more comfortable ... and had an "Indian Blood Peach" recommended for my location.
Back inside, I used Tom Burford’s book - 
- and Jennie’s assistance to determine which apple cultivars my friend was going to take home with him. The book worked excellent for that; with six decisions to be made, it helped narrow down their extensive list of apple varieties. Then they dug them as we waited! … while sampling even more of their unusual apples, before they were turned into cider.
As I spoke with Bill Shelton, the owner and chief-grunt of the Cider Works, I found that in his professional capacity he'd helped put my (new) home town of Floyd VA on the tourist map, as well as being a good friend of my current employer.. So as their parking lot and patio filled with Saturday evening cider sippers, Tom Burford navigated his way to us ... carrying a goblet of cider.
We lost track of time... ...but Tom remains impressed with the Home Orchard Society and ‘our people,’ including Joanie and the TOC crew.. When he asked me 'what I'm doing over here?' - Cross-pollination, I told him 
Then he gets going about Shaun … describing him having attended a NAFEX conference where Shaun said, ‘I brought very few clothes,’ ... ‘so I could bring this,’ opening his assortment of cider. Tom, having just finished his own cider.. lit up - describing the night their group “Sipped Shaun’s cider at the rotunda of the University of Virginia, under the stars” ~
So, about the book ..Mr Burford said he asked his publisher how many apples to include, 'because there are around six thousand!' They settled on two hundred, and after Tom had flown across and around the nation to collect, return and photograph them, he had seven left… After returning late from a flight to the upper midwest, having collected ‘the last’ from an experiment station and various regional growers ..he'd stashed them in a refrigerator at his office location. Resting and returning a couple days later - gone. Asking those with access to the fridge, he got his answer, “They were delicious!” Thus, 193 (though I’ve now seen counts of 191 & 192 in his book, he said 193 yesterday) ... but what's seven ..out of six thousand Twas a magnificent day in Virginia ~
I am considering experimenting with a Cox Orange Pippin variety purchased from Stark Brothers. My biggest concern is that I live in zone 9b (East Central Florida near the Atlantic coast) where it can get hot on occasion during the summer. Now I can plant the Cox Orange Pippin in a corner of my back yard that is partially shaded by a large live oak tree in order to provide some relief from the extreme heat of the noon day sun. Apart from that I also don't get anywhere near the 800 chill hours this apple is reported to require. I was wondering if anyone could give me their opinion about how likely it is that the tree will survive and bear fruit.
Thanks.
Hi Juan,
Cox's Orange Pippin is known as a disease heavy tree even in temperate zones. Not easy to grow here. Incredibly difficult there?
I would probably aim for one of the low chill apple varieties if I were you, but I'm not.
It could be an interesting experiment if you could afford the time or $ if it fails.
John S
PDX OR
Hi John,
I have Queen Cox which I read is either a sport of Cox's Orange Pippin, or a seedling from it. QC is considered self pollinating. Mine is a branch on a multigraft, 4 years old, bore a few apples last year and the year before. I like it a lot but my palate isn't refined enough to make claims about the flavor being legendary. No diseases so far.
Yes, Daniel,
THere are several varieties that either have cox as an ancestor or are a sport. ALmost all of them are easier to grow than Cox's Orange Pippin. I also grow Queen Cox. Good tasting and not that hard to grow but not amazing, like some describe Cox's Orange Pippin as.
John S
PDX OR
I have Cox and some of its offspring. Rubinette is the one that has done best for me so far. It won my family's mini taste test of about 20 varieties from my multi-grafted trees a few years ago. It performed pretty well on my neglected and unsprayed trees.
Freyberg really got my attention at the All About Fruit show. I haven't tasted my own, it, along with several others I haven't had, were stripped from my tree in what may have been a misunderstanding between my mother and the mail carrier.
Thanks for mentioning Rubinette. Orange Pippin website states that it is "Probably the best-tasting apple in the world". For an apple that good, some scab can be tolerated.
I am going to Raintree Nursery in February to pick up a Cosmic Crisp apple tree. Now it seems that there is no choice but to order a Rubinette also.
This is an addictive "hobby".
GH,
I wouldn't dissuade you from buying a Rubinette, tree, but I wouldn't say "there is no choice'.
You could get some scions from friendly Home Orchard Society members, like me :), or the exchange, and graft your own Rubinette tree, or add a branch or two of Rubinette to an existing tree.
If you are new to grafting, we usually have a grafting class at the end of February.
Hi Jafar,
I have been contemplating attending a grafting class, it seems like the logical next step. I will watch for information concerning the class in February.
When you mention the exchange, do you mean the plant sale in May?
So after attending the grafting class in February, I'll be able to find the Rubinette scion and buy the rootstock at the sale?
Thanks for your expertise!
GH,
http://www.homeorchardsociety......on-fair-4/
The Fruit Propagation Fair aka (Scion Exchange) is in March each year in Canby at the Clackamas County Fairgrounds. Yes, you can buy rootstock there, and there will probably be Rubinette scions. To be doubly sure, you could ask somebody to bring you a stick or two.
At the grafting class, you also get to make a tree with a provided rootstock and scion as part of the class fee. In the second half of the class you graft your own tree. If you had a Rubinette scion at the time, you could use that for your tree.
In 2016, when I was trying to acquire as many important apple references as possible (--including old out-of-print references--) I ordered Tom Burford's book. I thought it was a really good reference but -- given the fact that Tom's experience and varieties were basically related to the climate of the American southeast (hot and humid) -- I found it of limited use to me here in the Pacific Northwest. Granted, there were a score of varieties that I'd like to try here (and still might), but with our short seasons and limited number of heat units, I'm sure that many of them won't do well here.
There's a reason why there were apple cultivars in various parts of the country that became local favorites a hundred years ago: they were well-adapted to the local climate. Our good ol' U.S. of A. is a very large country with a broad diversity of climates and habitats and pest or disease pressures. Regrettably, the big commercial outfits promote a small subset of apples (and other fruits) to customers all across the country. If their customers fail, that's no skin off their teeth; they made their money. Clearly, any particular cultivar is not going to perform the same in Maine, Minnesota, Oregon, California, Oklahoma, and Alabama. This is why now-a-days we have to research those that arose in our local areas, or those that are known to do well in our areas. It's frustrating, and it takes time, and it takes money to experiment.... Some of us persist in our efforts out of obstinacy. If you don't experiment, you'll never know....
As for Tom Burford's book, I really did like the fact that he gave assessments as to the particularly good uses for the individual cultivars, such as cider, apple butter, etc., and storage longevity. If Viron doesn't yet have this book, I'd certainly recommend it to him given that he's now out on the Blue Ridge. As for a source of some of those apples, I'd recommend "Big Horse Creek Farm", which apparently carries some of those desireable apples.
In the meantime, I find that here in Lewis Co., Washington, apples from Britain and France seem to be rather well-suited due to climate similarity. If you really want to try something from outside your climate norms... Experiment! That's the foundation of new knowledge. Ya just never know what might be adaptable....
Reinettes
Reinettes-
I dare you to acquire a copy of Warren Marnharts "Apples for the 21st Century". He was a former HOS president and it's a great book, oriented toward the PNW, but universal in its appeal. Out of print now, I believe copies are still available somewhere.
JohnS
PDX OR
The grafting class is on page 2 of the events page:
http://www.homeorchardsociety......g-class-2/
It's on Saturday the 24th. There are two beginner classes and an intermediate which will cover things like inarching and approach grafts.
The classes require advance registration sell out each year, so if you are interested you should register.
It takes a few links to get to class sign up. I think you need to choose "CougarTrax" along the way.
I signed up on 1/9/18 for both the beginner's and the intermediate grafting classes, and all were almost full already. Anyone who wants to attend should register quickly.
Powells Bookstore lists used copies of "Apples for the 21st Century" on its website, powells.com, and the price is between $12.95 and $13.95. They require that the user create an account, unfortunately; the way to avoid that is to call, which means ordering the book during regular business hours.
JohnS and GH,
Thanks for the recommendation and potential source for "Apples for the 21st Century". I remember encountering the title but at the time that I searched all I could find was the "Out of Print" statement. Will certainly try Powell's. A person can spend days browsing in there!
Reinettes
"Apples of North America" is well worth buying. I've read it several times already and have marked the pages listing scab-resistant apples.
Now the search is on for a good fruit tree grafting book! Powell's, surprisingly, didn't have anything on this topic a couple of months ago.
Ummm. Always wanted to have a Copy of "Apples for the 21st Century". Until recently, finances didn't allow it. When first published, it was kinda spendy, in an era where dollars were dear to me.
Bought a very nice copy from ebay, just last week. $5.22 + Free shipping! Showed up in about 5 days.
Nice book, and Warren wasn't shy about listing his favorite apples.
Now being a former book dealer, I can usually find the cheapest book out there. There aren't any more 5 dollar books out there right now, but for around 10 bucks you too can own Manhart's fine book..... Free shipping too!
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