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playing w fire? codling moth+scion wood/tree transplant
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justalittlegardenobsessed
56 Posts
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1
March 12, 2011 - 7:56 am

Hi there --

I come once again to the Wise Ones to get sage apple advice. ;-)

1) I'm looking for Rubinette scion wood. Somebody in my area (Vancouver, BC) will let me snip some off his tree but his tree is infested with codling moth. Is this safe, or should I try and find another source? Or will it be tough to find scion wood not infested with codling moth? I currently have 9 cordoned trees and DON'T have codling moth and obviously would like to stay that way. Could the moth be burrowed under the bark of the scion wood?

2) The same guy says he's going to get rid of his trees (Rubinette, Ananas Reinette + Suntan) because he's tired of battling the moth. I would love to get some established trees. But is there any way of transplanting the trees without importing a codling moth problem too? I was thinking maybe I could prune them way back (I'm not sure how big they are) and rinse all the soil off the roots... I suspect I would just be setting myself up for disaster, but my trees are not productive yet and I'd love to get some fruit so I'm torn.

He also says his Rubinette least productive of the three and has been steadily declining in productivity... I don't know if this is normal for a Rubinette.

Anyways, I appreciate any thoughts/advice on this matter. I'm a newbie so don't have much helpful advice to offer in return but offer sincere gratitude!!

Dorothy

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Viron
1409 Posts
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March 12, 2011 - 10:36 am

Dorothy, I am not familiar with ‘Rubinette’ apples, or the tree’s characteristics, but feel it would be perfectly safe to use scion wood from the tree/s you described. I’d simply rinse off the scions with some light soapy water before storing or grafting them. And I have never seen or known codling moths to burrow under the bark of scion wood, or last ‘year’s new growth.’ Not all that familiar with the life cycle of a codling moth, having stopped spraying for anything decades ago, I believe they’ll overwinter in the soil or under bark scales on the tree trunk. As new growth doesn’t have those ‘scales,’ it should also be free of their eggs …though you might watch for scale insects.

It’s difficult to give advice on transplanting trees you’ve never seen… how old are they? I’d not go after an apple tree much older than 4 or 5 years in, unless you’re very capable of digging – and willing to get this done ASAP! I believe coddling moths can be ‘suffocated’ with dormant spray oil and wouldn’t bother washing down the roots. I’d be inclined to keep that soil as intact as possible to protect the small root fibers. There may be nematodes of some kind in the soil but I wouldn’t worry about the moths. You could remove (leaving it at his place) the top three or so inches of soil and assume anything lower would be safe from moth larva or eggs.

And again, I’m not familiar with Rubinette apples… but perhaps there’s a reason for that..? I’d suggest, if you really want some bad, just graft a limb or two onto an existing tree of yours… but if you’re wanting several trees of them … here’s an idea – secure and maintain the scion wood; bring it to the HOS Scion Exchange (fruit cuttings & burry exchange or whatever we’re calling it) in Canby next Saturday; buy as many of whatever kind of rootstock as trees you’d like (the experts behind the counter will guide you through their selection); then head over to the grafting area and have them put together… there’s a fee for every step, but in total you’d go away with fairly inexpensive apple trees of exactly what you want. …and if the variety is weak – give it a more vigorous rootstock.

I might even see you there: [url:1d9skg3j]http://www.homeorchardsociety.org/scion_exchange/[/url:1d9skg3j]

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justalittlegardenobsessed
56 Posts
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March 12, 2011 - 6:18 pm

Hi Viron!

Thanks for your generous and awesome advice as usual. Here's some info on the Rubinette: http://www.orangepippin.com/ap...../rubinette which confirms that is a pain in the butt to grow, but very tasty. Although Cloud Mountain disagrees and says it is an excellent performer: http://www.cloudmountainfarm.com/index2 ... d/apru/_p2 ???

I would love to come to your scion exchange (it would pretty much be heaven on earth, I think) but as I am in Canada it would cost a lot to get the trees back into the country. (I would have to organize a phytosanitation certificate which was $50-$60 the last time I checked.) Plus I don't have a car.

Viron, thanks again for your help.

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John S
PDX OR
3023 Posts
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4
March 12, 2011 - 8:07 pm

I can confirm that Rubinette is an apple with great flavor and I think it keeps pretty well too. I haven't grown it, but I think I'd like to.

I agree with VIron about the scions. No problem whatsoever. The problem with moving the tree is that the codling moths go into the apples when they're on the tree, and then move from the apple into the soil. If you bring the soil with you, you will also probably be bringing codling moth.

I also agree with Viron on the effort/benefit of size/age of tree. A 10 year old tree is a monster if it's semi-dwarf or bigger (15 ft or so). If you're an extreme athlete you may enjoy this. Otherwise, you'll never wish it on your enemy. Younger than 4-5 or dwarf (8ft)not so bad.

My perspective is worth at least 2 cents.
John S
PDX OR

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justalittlegardenobsessed
56 Posts
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5
March 12, 2011 - 11:32 pm

John SW --

Thanks for the confirmations. I got the scion wood this afternoon and did a clumsy graft onto some potted M9 root stock I have as a result of a poor previous graft attempt that didn't take. :mrgreen: I found out the trees are part of a gorgeous 5 tree Belgian fence which would be pretty unwieldy to move (and God only knows where I'd put it. Although I'm sure I could squish it in somewhere! <img decoding=" title="Wink" /> )

John/Viron/anybody: Any thoughts on whether my graft would be better off inside or outside the house at this time of year?

Thanks again for the feedback, deeply appreciated. D.

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Viron
1409 Posts
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6
March 13, 2011 - 8:43 am

“Any thoughts on whether my graft would be better off inside or outside the house at this time of year?”

That could depend on just where in Canada you are :roll: …I’d suspect keeping it out of harsh wind and allowing it to wake up naturally outdoors would be fine. Keeping it too warm would give it a jump on everything else, thus making it susceptible to more damage if a cold spell hit. And the connection is either going to take, or not.

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jafarj
422 Posts
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7
March 13, 2011 - 1:13 pm

Dorothy,

What nobody seems to be mentioning is that unless your little orchard is going to be miles from any other apple trees, there are already going to be plenty of codling moths around to find your trees. And for that matter, I believe the codling moth can go through it's life style in a variety of other hosts besides apples.

I'd go into this assuming you will need to deal with codling moths ,in one way or another, as part of your apple growing experience.

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John S
PDX OR
3023 Posts
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8
March 13, 2011 - 2:33 pm

I agree with Jafar. Also, once you get a little bit, you definitely want to cover your apples with footies, ziplocs, paperbags, or something, because they will overwhelm your tree quickly.
John S
PDX OR

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justalittlegardenobsessed
56 Posts
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9
March 13, 2011 - 8:33 pm

Well, thanks for the sobering info. I can't say that my apple trees have provided great bang for buck from the get go. I've had them for 4 years and have only gotten 2 bloody apples so far! And I have to spray, and prune, and fertilize, and then having to deal with moths if I ever get a decent amount of fruit ... it's all a bit daunting.

Whereas my blueberries, strawberries and raspberries have been easy and productive. Maybe I'll end up like this guy, ripping all my apple trees out.

Anyways -- in the meantime, I still have them, and I appreciate all your very helpful advice.

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jafarj
422 Posts
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March 13, 2011 - 11:57 pm

[quote="justalittlegardenobsessed":2crh4t8e]Well, thanks for the sobering info. I can't say that my apple trees have provided great bang for buck from the get go. I've had them for 4 years and have only gotten 2 bloody apples so far! And I have to spray, and prune, and fertilize, and then having to deal with moths if I ever get a decent amount of fruit ... it's all a bit daunting.

Whereas my blueberries, strawberries and raspberries have been easy and productive. Maybe I'll end up like this guy, ripping all my apple trees out.

Anyways -- in the meantime, I still have them, and I appreciate all your very helpful advice.[/quote:2crh4t8e]

Don't get too discouraged. You'll work out some kind of balance.

I just wanted to add that last year I got to try, for the first tiem from my trees, a couple of dozen varieties of apples that I had grafted on 2 or 3 years earlier. Rubinette was a standout for flavor, in the top 5 for sure, and these were all varieties that I'd chosen, not just at random.

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justalittlegardenobsessed
56 Posts
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11
March 14, 2011 - 7:36 pm

Well, I certainly appreciate all your expertise and generosity. Thanks so much.

Very warmly, D.

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Oregon Woodsmoke
143 Posts
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12
March 30, 2011 - 9:08 pm

Such a shame to take out a Belgian fence when coddling moth is so easy to control with spraying. So much work to just chop it all down.

Patience, gardenobsessed. I don't expect a good crop of apples until my trees have been in the ground for 5 years. Any fruit before then is a lovely bonus.

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