These are my first persimmons, ever, to ripen at my personal sized little orchard in Battleground WA. The variety is Nikita's Gift. These fell off the tree. There are still lots of persimmons on the tree. This tree is finishing its 4th summer here.
The greener two are not quite ripened yet, and I put alll three into a bag with some apples for ripening, so I can't yet vouch for the flavor. There was another on the ground that fell earlier and ripened off the tree, but was partially dried out. I ate that one, it had a sweet persimmon flavor with no astringency, but was stringy.
I bought this tree 4 years ago from Raintree, and a Saijo at the same time. The Saijo also looks to have ripening persimmons. Raintree claims that Saijo is the only Japanese persimmon that ripens at their site in Southwest Washington, which I think is at a higher elevation than here in Battleground and may not have as many growing degree days. Saijo is kind of an ugly tree with droopy curled leaves, while Nikita's Gift has nice richly green tropical looking leaves. They both have nice fall color so far.
I have two young American persimmons but doubt any production for 1 to 3 years, if ever.
Well there is not a lot out there on growing persimmons here, so I thought I would post. I might update when I get to actually taste them 🙂
Those are beautiful Daniel. I'm envious. Thanks for sharing the pictures.
I bought a tree labeled as Saijo, but it is clearly Virginiana. I've grafted it over. I got my hands on some Saijo scions, but its been more difficult for me to get them to take than others. I have about 4 inches of growth on one of the several grafts. The others failed. That growth isn't pretty. On the same tree, Coffeecake has taken better and Fuyugaki, the original, is also looking much better.
Izu and Chocolate also look pretty good.
Jafar, Im glad you got some scions to grow. I added Chocolate to my Saijo tree this year. Would love to hear about the progress, there just isn't a lot around here about persimmons.
I've read that persimmon is more difficult to graft than other fruit trees, needs to be done when understock is growing actively and scion is dormant.
I got the chocolate scion at the propagation fair - thank you HOS! - and kept in fridge until there was good growth on the stock tree. I cut the scion in half and grafted both halves using whip-and-tongue. Then overwrapped the entire scion with parafilm tape, on top of the vinyl grafting tape. I gave it an aluminum foil cap to reflect sunlight, so it wouldn't dehydrate. One started growing after about one month, the other after about 2 1/2 months. Growth was minimal, and the leaves have a brownish color but still look healthy.
I think with some trees, the main goal the first year is just to get the graft to take, then keep lower branches from competing. My experience is similar with ginkgo, the grafts took for 2 of 3 attempts but just grew tufts of leaves, while the understocks grew more vigorously so I cut that growth back. Also the fig that I grafted, I got take for 1 of 3 attempts, with only about 4 inches of growth. So I'm hoping that all of these take off next year and I can be diligent. Once the scions really show signs of growth, anything that grows from stock will be cut back to main stem.
Jafar, now that the Nikita's Gift is confirmed as looking like a Nikita's Gift, you might want try grafting some of that. I should have some good scion. It's much more vigorous than the Saijo, and much more lush and handsome. Those are both on D. lotus rootstock. Persimmon vigor seems variable. The Yates that I got from Burnt Ridge is very vigorous - watch for deer! - while the Prairie Star - or was it Prairie Sun - from OGW only grew 3 inches last year. Prairie S has very pretty foliage but the goal is fruit.
Jafar, here are some photos.
Nikita's gift, first year bearing. Height of deer cage 4 foot tall.
Saijo. Height of deer cage 4 foot tall.
Yates Persimmon, not bearing this year 2016. Similar in size to Nikita's Gift last year. Enlarged deer cage. Deer push against the open mesh and grab branches, pulling them to eat. Can't have branches near the mesh. Height of cage 4 foot tall.
Chocolate Persimmon scion grafted onto Saijo persimmon. Graft took, but limited growth first year. Leaves and stem are quite differeint from Saijo.
My champ again is Garretson. So full of delicious fruit. It might be my single favorite fruit tree. I also have a Szukis to pollinate it, because as I read the old Claypool American persimmon trials, it was clear that the male was important to flavor in the fruit. It has fruited before but doesn't now, perhaps because I am no longer growing chestnuts. I also get fruit from my Early Golden every year. I have NC-1 and H-118 that aren't producing fruit yet. I don't grow Asian persimmons, because I haven't found any that have as complex and interesting of a flavor as the Americans.
John S
PDX OR
John, do you like Garretson significantly better than Early Golden. I've heard the latter wins lots of taste tests. Are you coming to the All About Fruit Show? I should be there on setup day and both days of the show. I'd love to taste a Garretson if there are any still about.
I tried Prairie Star or Prairie Sun, trademarked Claypool varieties, a couple of years ago and thought they were excellent. I don't have many American Persimmon experiences to compare them to though.
About 10 days ago, maybe less, I picked a handful of firm but fully colored Nikita's Gift persimmons and placed them in a plastic bag with 3 apples for ripening.
Today they are soft as a slightly overripe tomato. These persimmons are jelly-like inside, very sweet with a spicy flavor that reminds me of cinnamon or clove. Difficult for me to describe, but very tasty and a welcome treat. The consistency is like jelly, a little juicier than some Asian plums, but not watery like Shiro plum. More like a jelly. No seeds.
My Saijo is a little behind Nikita's gift in ripening, but not by much.
Here are the Saijo Persimmons. I also ripened these off the tree, although there are a few remaining on that tree.
I think I liked the Nikita's Gift better, more complex spicy flavor and possibly sweeter. If I had not tasted those, I would list the Saijo as very delicious. They are very sweet and rich.
The plate contains 2 Nikita's Gift for comparison of size and appearance. NG is more red and flatter, Saijo is more golder and oblong with 4 lobes.
Saijo Persimmon
These are the first home-grown persimmons that I have ever tasted. I rate them excellent, and worth the effort. In addition, the Nikita's Gift is a beautiful tree with shiny tropical - looking green summer leaves and brilliant fall color. That would make a nice yard tree.
Sorry I have been such a bad HOS forum poster.
I like Saijo. I think it is one of the most interesting of the Asian persimmons. I still agree with Daniel that Nikita's Gift has a more interesting flavor. As climate change is clearly happening here, Nikita's Gift will be more reliable to ripen.
Yes, Jafar, my Garretson is way better than Early Golden for me. However,.........
In the spirit of continuing scientific sharing quest,
my Garretson is heavily pollinated by Szukis, a favored pollinator. Claypool clearly showed that the male pollinator is important in flavor data. I confirm this even though I only have a few data points.
Several sources, including Jerry Lehman himself, state that a heavily pollinated persimmon fruit makes a larger, and tastier fruit. I will confirm this based on many fruit but only a few trees. My Early Golden normally has unseeded fruit, which I confirm is smaller and inferior in flavor (and nutrition?).
I am happy to share scions of Szukis and Garretson scions with you two. Both trees are small. You both are VIP's in my book and as such welcome to come share scions or fruit (still have some Garretsons) even though there are limited quantities you two are at the top of my mythical list.
John S
PDX OR
Thanks John,
You guys are VIPs in my book too. I might take you up on your offer for scion wood. I have a sucker from one of my persimmon trees that should make a good rootstock. I assume Garretson makes a pretty big tree, so maybe I can put it in an untamed area with a tree-guard of some sort.
If I get out your way, I'd love to taste them.
I could probably meet you again if you remind me about the HOS meeting. I could probably share Garretson scion with one of you but not both. Then the other dude next year. I broke a branch last year. I wish I weren't so clumsy. I would love to get Yates or Nikita's gift.
Daniel, I recommend Szukis as a pollinator and I could get you a scion of that if you want. It's a naturally small tree.
John S
PDX OR
John i would enjoy getting my hands on scion of a pollinator variety like Szukis. I will hold off any pruning until after scion exchange. The Nikita's Gift is the best I have tasted so far. Also healthy looking tree.
I just harvested the last dozen NG which we will ripen inside. We use them up fast.
I ordered four different persimmons for next year.
NIKITAS GIFT
NISHIMURA WASE
MAEKAWA JIRO
MATSUMOTO WASE FUYU
I'm planning to put them in a 2x2 array. I'm wondering how far apart I should plant them, or how big they can get, and which should be on the south side of the group so as not to shade the others. (Which is more vigorous)
Dubdyadee, mine are all about 12 to 15 feet apart. My intent is to keep the sizes down enough so an old man (me) doesn't need a ladder for maintenance and harvest, but big enough that I can dispense with deer cages when they mature. I may regret that. The linked website for California orchards states up to 20 feet apart but Fuyu as close as 12-16 feet apart for commercial orchard. They give different spacing for different soils as well.
Congratulations. My Izu is a year behind yours, and I don't think it has any fruit buds this year, but I'll give it a closer look today.
My Chocolate has its first few female buds, Fuyugaki has a few, and I have a bunch on my Prairie Star (I think). Still waiting for Coffeecake, the other Prairie, and just put in a tall Saijo from Harvest Nursery.
Is it too late to graft persimmons this year? I’ve never grafted persimmons before. I live in SW Washington state. I have a Fuyu persimmon tree with some suckers growing up from the roots I was going to try to graft. I also have a couple roots stock and scion wood for a couple different types of persimmons.
I have experience grafting apples. Lately cleft grafts - did two this spring and they both took! I was told to wait on persimmons until they start growing, but now I’m afraid I’m too late? What type of graft is the best?
Thanks for any advice.
Idyllwild
simplepress
jafar
Marsha H
Viron
1 Guest(s)