I see that Ted Swensen's article about nylon footies for maggot control remains on the website in it's original form, claiming near 100% efficacy for them.
There have been reports, besides mine, that disprove or at least cast considerable doubt on the assertion in that article. I strongly suggest that it either be updated with the contradictory experiences reported or a better case made for the assertion with a lot better proof to back up the claim than is presented.
My experience is that the footies are a waste of time and that the caterpillars will penetrate them in numbers comparable to unprotected fruit.
People use this website for good advice, especially those like me who are new to fruit tree care, and a bad experience with inadequately researched and tested advice reflects on the whole enterprise.
From the many reports I've received regarding the nylon footie's effectiveness against fruit insect pests, a few items stand out.
* Proper installation is paramount.
1) The foot sock seems nearly 100% effective against apple maggots when properly installed on the apple.
2) The footie is less effective (60-80%) against codling moth. The codling moth larve is capable of chewing through the sock. Earwigs also can chew through the nylon.
3) It is necessary to install the sock before the emergence of the fruit pest, don't let the pest beat you to the fruit. Insect emegence will depend upon your micro-climate. For example, the Portland area emergence will be earlier than Seattle.
4) It is important to close the sock opening at the stem end otherwise the pest can enter through that breach.
I talked for a moment with Ted Swensen at the last Fall Fruit Show. He agreed that the CM is undeterred by nylon footies. There was also a sign to that effect where the HOS was selling the footies. Although it seems Apple Maggot may be stopped. I would agree that any article on this website should be updated or removed that claims footies' effectiveness against CM.
Having said all that, I congratulate Ted for coming up with this idea. And I thank the HOS for making the footies cheaply available. It was a wonderful idea with many possible advantages. After reading about them for the first time, I thought, why didn't *I* think of that, it seemed like such an obvious idea. But of course it really wasn't. Too bad it didn't quite work out.
I've been looking into plastic sandwich bags for CM protection. People have had some very good experience with them on apples and peaches. Maybe someone with experience can start a thread about using those.
Hi all,
Yes nylon footies are a failure for codling moth (CM).
I have soaked them in fish oil and still had CM infestations.
Not to quit, I then soaked them in Surround®, dried them and nd applied before the codling moths mated.
I did not have a CM on or in the fruits bagged with Surround® nylon footies, I did have them in nylon footies right next to the Surround® footies.
AND, no earwigs at the top of the footies.
PS. I am not careful in my application of the footies, sometimes the "toe" of the footie is on the side ofthe fruit and I just squeeze the top to the stem, no twisting, no tying.
I also use the diameter of the stem of the fruit in thinning to determine June drop as the footies go on before June. My reasoning is that the fruit nutrients travel via the stem and the larger the stem the more attached and larger the fruit will be.
Footies + Surround® will be available on HOS web site and Footies soaked in Surround® will also be avaiable on or about February 1, 2010.
As I wrote in the Home Orchard Society's Pome News, there are other aspects of this problem as well. This past year, I tried the footies, plastic bags, and paper bags. My home is in a Homes Association, so you can get letters, fines and complaints. The plastic bags received a lot of negative complaints, much more than the other two. The footies received none. In fact, I believe that the neighbors failed to notice them, because they contour to the shape of the fruit. I would use footies and plastic bags again, but not paper bags. I think the biggest factor, like Greg said, is using them at the right time. I got killed in 2008 by codling moth. Last year I had a spectacular crop of many fruit. Hardly any damage. I intend to use them this year as well, and I will try the SURROUNDr footie method.
John S
PDX OR
I am quite interested in Ted's reply and in what should be made available soon.....I have been working with "footies" in the Seattle area in public locations for a few years now.....my own subjective impression is that footies work when in a low codling moth population but do not work in high CM populations....I used them in various areas around the Seattle area .....I also found that in some locations foot sox needed application before June 1st while in others you could do this before July 1st....that is a month differential......and all I can say is, location location location !! I have been talking with people about soaking these foot sox in various substances, have tried various organic compounds, but haven't developed anything convincing yet.
Will handling the Surround footies be safe to the hands or will plastic gloves be needed? How long does the substance last before it is broken down by ultraviolet light?
Is there a preservative that could be soaked on the footies after the Surround has been applied to help preserve both the insecticide and the life of the foot sox?
This is my first post here and I express gratitude to all the Home Orchard Society is doing.
[quote="DonRicks":325acg7z]
Will handling the Surround footies be safe to the hands or will plastic gloves be needed? How long does the substance last before it is broken down by ultraviolet light?
Is there a preservative that could be soaked on the footies after the Surround has been applied to help preserve both the insecticide and the life of the foot sox?.[/quote:325acg7z]
Don: Surround is actually not a chemical, but rather kaolin clay, so from what I understand, it's certified organic.
Hello,
I'm on my maiden voyage with the surround soaked nylon footies. I've been meaning to try Surround for CM suppression for years now and was finally ready to do it when I came upon the nylons idea (brilliant). I'm seeking answers to a few questions that I have.
1) Regarding applying the footies- I was thinking twist ties to attach at the stem. Excessive? other attachment ideas? Seems the CM will crawl in if it's not closed at the stem end.
2)How often (if at all) are people reapplying surround to the footies on the trees in the spring following lots of rain?
3)Is spraying surround (2-3 coats), followed by reapplication after hard rains as effective as surround soaked footies especially when dealing with many trees (30-50)?
I'm not sure placing footies on all the trees I'm dealing with will be worth the time, but am trialing them on some select high quality varieties and trees (apples and pears).
Thanks in advance for any ideas/ insight.
Ted Purdy
FOOD For Lane County Youth Farm
Eugene
Ted P., you have asked an excellent question about applying Surround again if there has been a lot of rain. I am wondering the same thing.
As to attachments, the Seattle Tree Fruit Society has been recommending just wrapping the base of the nylon sock around the stem.....the flies are NOT good about sniffing their way around and finding entry....once they land on the foot sox, they seem to be deterred.....so the sealing at the stem does not have to be perfect.
Having said that, I like to be "exacting" and I myself sometimes use twist ties and sometimes use rubber bands from the hair braids for dolls purchased at a 99 cent store.....you have to get the more durable rubber bands, though, that will last a couple months. Orthodontic rubber bands would be best, but they are expensive.
To my mind, we need to get more "scientific" about knowing just when the codling moth is flying and just when the apple maggot fly is flying.....in Portland, I believe the codling moth has still not hatched its eggs yet and the apple maggot fly is almost a month away from even emerging......we were fooled by an early Spring....and now we have wet and unseasonably cool weather in Seattle (and I assume Portland as well).
In the Piper Orchard
http://www.pipersorchard.org
I am putting up trichogramma wasps and pheromone mating disruptors.......if we can make the codling moth population negligible, then the footies for the apple maggot fly wouldn't have to be applied until mid to late June and thus give us a much better window of opportunity......not to mention having bypassed most of the wet and rainy weather by then.
Just some thoughts.
I have some crabapples, including large good for eating Wickson (see last issue of Pome News) for which I am not putting any footies or ziplocs this year. I'm very busy and the codling moth didn't really get to my edible crabs last year so I'm trying it without.
I just discovering a huge advantage to footies over ziplocs. The extreme wind we've been having knocked off about 2/3 of my Asian pears. The ziploc makes a huge flapping sound. I believe that without the ziploc, many of these fruits would not have fallen. As anyone who's used both footies and ziplocs will attest, footies do not have problems with the wind like ziplocs do. Next year I'll start before May 1 on Asian pears and use mostly footies with only a few ziplocs. I'll use more ziplocs on the later apples, after the bursting Spring wind has gone.
John S
PDX OR
Idyllwild
simplepress
jafar
Marsha H
Viron
1 Guest(s)