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Natural habitats, bee diversity key to better apple production
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davem
394 Posts
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1
January 25, 2019 - 1:32 pm

Probably old news to folks here, but nice to see it being studied: http://news.cornell.edu/storie.....production

What native pollinator plants/habitats do you have in your orchard? 

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
866 Posts
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January 26, 2019 - 1:00 pm

I have a number of two year old seedling blueberry that I selected myself from a good fruiting female that I wish to garden out some day in my northern escape and Alaska garden. I have spent a few moments with staff and beekeepers at UAF and concerning blueberry flowers, which are almost exclusively dominated by bumblebees, and honeybee hives are situated right nearby. 

So inside your link and the pathway pointing to the "supporting study", which in your case states: "They found that the equivalent of millions of years of pollinator evolution were lost in highly altered agriculture environments...etc", which is true and a highly novel thing to the plum the apples etc., it is also very concerning/informative, so Thankyou! (never knew it before).

As an aside (and per my initial remark): Here is something very specialized concerning the same in bumblebee.

Body Temperature Regulation (the mode of being partly warm blooded) /per bumblebee

There has been lots of data and thesis' created at UAF which tell us how and why bumblebees wings play such a good evolutionary role to blueberry pollination. In that the disconnected wings generate sound waves that break the pollen grains loose from the anthers that honeybees are incapable of doing. I suppose this method would also apply to cross pollination of pollen carried with the sound/turbulence from the bee hairs to nearby other pistilate plants within the same flight ranges, but I do not know for sure.

Warm-blood regulation for flight also serves to tell us that bumblebees can be the better species during cold weather requirements as such per the Davem's post (ie. for apple-plums etc). 🙂

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John S
PDX OR
3026 Posts
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January 27, 2019 - 9:05 pm

Rooney,

You continue to amaze me.

I have native plants like Spirea and Beach daisy, umbelliferae and herbs like oregano, as well as blueberry and native Evergreen huckleberry, gradually blooming flowers like cornus mas and Japanese plum early and hawthorn, blackberry late, as well as summer blooming plants like pineapple guava, passionflower, aster, daisy  and crepe myrtle.  Different families of plants and mushrooms so the insects can heal themselves per Stamets.

John S
PDX OR

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DanielW
Clark County, WA
519 Posts
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4
January 29, 2019 - 10:52 am

Very nice topic and information Dave!  Thanks!

Rooney, that's amazing about the bumblebees.

In my fairly rural Battleground WA orchard and garden, there are lots - thousands? - of tiny insects hovering around within the fruit trees while they are blooming, even when I don't see honeybees.  I am guessing these insects are native pollinators.  They seem to stay within each tree, which is why I like to graft additional varieties to each tree for pollination.  If a tree does not have a second cultivar within its branches, I cut a small flowering branch from another tree and place it among the branches of the tree that I want pollinated. 

So far that seems to work.  Among the apple, peaches, pears, and plums, there are usually way too many fruits, and they need a lot of thinning.  I usually wind up removing around 90% of apples and pears, and maybe that amount of plums and peaches.  Most peaches are self pollinating so I dont add branches to those.  Grapes seem to overbear, too.

As an obsessed gardener, I also grow a lot of flowers.  Bees love zinnias, cosmos, and herbs like John grows, oregano, mints, lemon balm.  I dont see as many insects on marigolds. I grow the annuals in garden rows in the vegetable garden for easy weeding and maintenance.  Deer don't eat these varieties.  Late in the season, sedums bloom and are covered with bees, and annuals continue until frost.  When blooming, allium varieties (chives but especially garlic chives = chinese chives are covered with bees!) are excellent for pollinating insects.  I dont see thum much on echinacea and rudbeckia, but we grow those too.  If I let collards or mustard greens bloom, insects love those flowers too.  And cilantro, which if you let them bloom and let seeds form, give you cilantro, great for adding to chili.

Ceonothus (also called California Lilac but is not a lilac) is dry tolerant, does great here, and bees love those flowers.  For shade trees, I planted lindens which attract a lot of bees and grow nicely  I planted a sourwood for the same reason, but it is not thriving at all.

Sadly, the majority of yards in my area are mostly lawn.  Not much benefit for pollinating insects.

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buzzoff
84 Posts
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5
January 29, 2019 - 7:39 pm

In my Portland neighborhood, during the last massive Honeybee die-off, I saw no Honeybees for 10-15 years.  None.

Most of the wild Honeybees seemed to have died.

My trees generally produced decent crops of apples and pears anyway.

Mason bees, flies, and other hobo-like critters, must have been carrying the load.

I was very pleased when I started seeing honeybees again 7-8 years ago.  I was concerned that their absence might continue forever.

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John S
PDX OR
3026 Posts
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February 5, 2019 - 9:24 pm

There are like 41 varieties of native bees here.

Honey's good too.

John S
PDX OR

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
429 Posts
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7
February 5, 2019 - 11:13 pm

Howdy,

Before any Europeans set foot in North America, there were native plants here that relied upon pollination.  Amazingly, apparently against all odds, those plants got pollinated and produced seeds, just as they had for countless millennia.  The introduction of European honeybees was not some miracle of sudden pollination.  Our native bees were doing just fine while they were doin' their jobs.  Sadly, the vast majority of Americans seem to think that European honeybees are the only little critters that can pollinate our plants.  Corporate propaganda for commercial crops. [God bless an educational system that produces such ignoramuses.]

I love my native bees and bumblebees (--which are still "bees").  They are not just taken for granted, but they are under constant assault by toxins introduced into the environment.  Before there were "bees" (i.e., European honeybees), the "New World" was doing just fine.  Here we have a wonderful diversity of native bee species which -- just like the European honeybees -- are croaking because the manufacturers and purveyors of pesticides for the production of corporate crops have the money and influence to buy spineless politicians.  Oh dear!  I mustn't go on.  As my wife says, "Don't get him started!"

Suffice to say that we have been taking our native bees (--and indeed our native biodiversity) for granted.  They're only a tiny part of our unraveling environment.  For those of you who love our native bees and would like to know more about them, and perhaps even try to encourage them, I very highly recommend the book by Joseph S. Wilson and Olivia M. Carril:  "The Bees in Your Backyard, A Guide to North American Bees."  It's the first of its kind and an outstanding reference.  I only wish that there were a comparable publication on our native wasps.  

Please don't hurt me.  I'm only expressing my opinion.

Tim

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
429 Posts
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8
February 7, 2019 - 5:12 pm

Please allow me to formally apologize for my previous, coarse, thoughtless posting which undoubtedly could be seen as offensive.  While attempting to be informative, I was clearly over-the-line in an unnecessary ad homine utterance.  I generally try to be courteous and conscientious in my postings, and I very clearlyEmbarassed failed here.  Mea culpa.  Mea maxima culpa.  

Tim

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
866 Posts
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9
February 7, 2019 - 7:45 pm

I bet that book did not include what I think is a special observation that I heard from an elder native man from the city of North Pole Alaska who, after an orchard advisory meeting, would tell me true bee storys. 

The true story about some Alaska bumblebees is that they are being observed as truly capable of pollination of bog blueberry and lingion berry at 35F!! I know some of the tiny bumblebees he was talking about because I have seen them around in the gardens that I don't have these berries, so seeing them in my later crops is believing. As yet I don't have blues. Furthermore the bog blue and lingion berry are very early often not flowering due to winters extremes at times, and other years crops fail due to flower freezing. So in bloom these arctic bumblebees are a must.

So like you said (and Stamets),
...we better start paying more attention.

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John S
PDX OR
3026 Posts
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10
February 8, 2019 - 9:38 pm

Tim,

I liked your post. I didn't see anything offensive in it.  I look forward to your posts.

John S
PDX OR

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
429 Posts
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11
February 10, 2019 - 1:24 pm

Thanks for the nice comment, John.  I try to self-censor, but at times it can be really hard to keep me in check.  I just noticed an article while trying to keep up on the news and thought it was timely and would fit here in this forum:

<https://www.theguardian.com/en.....re&gt;

For those who try to stay abreast of actual happenings, the real news always seems to be a downer.  Ignoring it, though, sure doesn't make it better.  (I consider myself a realist, but when my wife asks me if the glass is "half-full or half-empty," I always tell her that it's "half-empty and full of floaters."  Wink  Ya gotta keep a sense of humor to stay above it all, and then try to do what you can locally and politically.

Tim

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GH
Battle Ground, WA
129 Posts
(Offline)
12
February 11, 2019 - 12:16 am

A great book to read is, "1493 Uncovering the New World Columbus Created", by Charles C. Mann. In it he talks of the contempt that Native Americans had for European honeybees.  Their arrival meant that European settlers were coming, and they called the bees "white man's flies".  

 Native bees don't get the respect that they deserve.  Since European and native bees are all in distress, it's probably a moot point since they seem to be affected equally by our short-sightedness (as Tim said earlier, "Here we have a wonderful diversity of native bee species which -- just like the European honeybees -- are croaking because the manufacturers and purveyors of pesticides for the production of corporate crops have the money and influence to buy spineless politicians"). 

My property has many more natives than Europeans; it's fascinating to observe the diversity that exists, from tiny sweat bees to different types of bumblebees. One small bumblebee loved my potted tomatoes last year and would visit them every evening. I also saw, for the first time in my life, a solid black, huge bumblebee (not a carpenter bee) - I still don't know what it was. The bee identification book mentioned above is going on my to-buy list, for sure.

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
429 Posts
(Offline)
13
February 12, 2019 - 8:31 pm

I had meant to cite it earlier, but Rooney mentioned the ever-indefatigable bumble bees and I thought I should mention the book "Bumble Bees of North America: an Identification Guide," by Paul Williams, et al.  As with the North American Bees book, cited above, in order to truly definitively identify what critter you have before you it is very helpful to have a good magnification source, an astute critical eye, and a knowledge of the basic vocabulary related to insect anatomy.  

Even if you can't confidently identify a bumble bee to the species level, you should still be able to see the subtle differences in their sizes, coloration patterns, perhaps behaviors, and habitats.  Just among bumblebees, there are short-tongued ones and long-tongued ones (--and intermediate-length as well).  These will tend to feed on different flowers in the landscape.  Some will tend to nest in grassy areas; others in wooded areas.

Providing a diversity of soils and plants will promote insect diversity.

My wife and I are still amazed when we think back to our first home in southern California.  It had been in a citrus grove in the 1940's, then developed into homes in the 1950's.  We bought it in 1988 from an elderly woman who had stopped watering her yard several years earlier.  One of my first projects was to plant-out my cactus collection along the length of the asphalted driveway.  Then, the area between the house and the garage, which was basically alluvial sandy soil, and the "cat-box" for at least 24 neighborhood cats, was hand-excavated to make an 1100-gallon pond so that I could grow many of the aquatic, semi-aquatic, and riparian plants that I wanted to grow.  Then, little by little, the back area was planted with semi-dwarf fruit trees and other fruiting plants, and the front yard....  Oh, the front yard was a blank canvas that I gradually filled with native Californian plants that the soil hadn't seen in decades.  When I'd go out botanizing, I'd collect seeds of various natives that I wanted to grow and learn more about, whether annual or perennial....

...I just got out my notebook of "Seed germination records" to see what I had planted in the front yard during that era and I don't even want to try to count.  I planted scores and scores of native annuals and herbaceous perennials that I had collected while engaged in field botany.

Suffice to say that what followed was an annual increase in insect species diversity that my wife and I still remember with awe.  Just that little 1/7th of an acre in the midst of a 1950's suburb made it absolutely clear how vitally important a diverse plant habitat is to the subsequent diversity of insects.

What has changed in recent decades is that biocides have become so prevalent in our environment that countless beneficial insects don't even stand a chance at survival.  In many cases, just the break-down products of herbicides and insecticides are as toxic as the original chemical that was applied.  How long ago was DDT banned?  And yet its residues can still be found in the environment.  I even met a guy who lamented the fact that DDT had been banned and was glad that he still had a supply of it.

Anyway,...  As usual I've gone off on a tangent.  I had hoped to get back to davem's original posting:  

     What native pollinator plants/habitats do you have in your orchard?

I guess that maybe I sorta got near that, but didn't really get to my current environmental situation.  It'll have to wait. Clearly I've blathered enough.

Tim

GH -- Thanks for the book recommendation.  1492 definitely "turned the world upside down," and Charles Mann's book sounds like a good read!  I love the thought of European honeybees as "White man's flies."  (--Not that I have anything against European bees,... or flies for that matter.) Smile

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Reinettes
Lewis Co., WA
429 Posts
(Offline)
14
February 25, 2019 - 4:52 pm

GH --

Just a quick post to say that I've started reading "1493", and to offer a "thank you" for your recommendation.  It's definitely the kind of book that I enjoy reading.  It's what I call "a chewy book" -- kinda like a Jared Diamond offering:  "chewy" due to the fact that I need to read slowly and conscientiously because of the amount of information provided, and the thought-provoking nature of what is being proffered.  It can take a lot of thoughtful chewing to grasp and digest it all.  To me, that truly makes a "good read."  

Tim

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GH
Battle Ground, WA
129 Posts
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15
February 25, 2019 - 8:30 pm

Tim - I'm so glad that you're enjoying "1493", it's a fascinating book and well worth reading.  I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I had never given what the Americas were like before Europeans arrived much thought. For example I didn't realize that earthworms weren't native to all parts of North America until I was well into adulthood, and the effect that they had when they were introduced didn't hit me until I had read the book. It is eye-opening.

My memory was a little faulty -  Native Americans called European honeybees "English flies".

Watershed Alliance of SW Washington, Audubon Society of Portland, and Columbia Land Trust have teamed up to offer a "Backyard Habitat Certification Program" for Clark County, Washington. It's still ramping up, so for now there's a wait list. There is a size limit, I think that it's an acre (?), so they are focusing on more urban properties. This is exciting and will help homeowners who want to make their yards bee-friendly. The website is backyardhabitats.org. The Watershed Alliance of SW Washington contact is Bethany Wray, bethany@thewatershedalliance.org.

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John S
PDX OR
3026 Posts
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February 25, 2019 - 10:46 pm

We definitely need more people to create habitat for all kinds of bees. 

I completely agree with you on 1493 and Jared Diamond books.  You have to read them slowly because by the time you finish them, you have become a different person.  Paul Stamets' Mycelium Running and Growing GOurmet and Medicinal Mushrooms were like that for me too.

John S
PDX OR

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