I'm seeking some information on apple trees listed as being natural dwarfs.

When a tree like Hazen, Centennial Crab, Firecracker Crab (or any other variety that is listed as being a natural dwarf) is grafted to a large rootstock like b118 or antanovka will their ultimate size be much smaller than a tree that isn't a natural dwarf?

Does rootstock or variety (or both) have more influence on ultimate size of a tree?

Is there no "pat" answer?