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HOS closing down?
November 2, 2020
12:55 pm
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DanielW
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jafar said

We may be able to host them on this site.  Are you able to make PDFs?  We still details to work through with how to wrap things up.  I'm hoping that we can share the digital copies of Pome new publicly.  The purpose of HOS is education, so would be nice to share them as a legacy.  

Jafar, yes, I can make pdfs.  There is some stuff on the newsletter that might not be useful - events calendar and maybe some other stuff.  I can leave that off.  I think my scanner has a low resolution mode that would be lower memory and still allow for reading on computer or tablet.  I will see if I can get to them tomorow, and also my scanner to see if it is still working.  Some tech has a way of becoming obsolete without telling us, so I need to check on that before I get in too deep Smile  My main concern is if there is possible copyright infringement.  I don't want to risk that.  If I can get it to work, I can post a sample on the forum.

 

Edit:  I haven't looked at that box in probably a year.  Before I promise anything I need to see if I can find it.  Kind of embarrassing but when you live in a house this long, things sometimes hide. 

On OCR, that's way over my head.  Might be the perfect solution, but it's not something that I know.

November 2, 2020
1:01 pm
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davem
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Re: scanning pre-digital newsletters - I just got a new all-in-one printer which has a dual-sided scanner with OCR built in (supposedly 35 sheets per minute).  If you have an all-in-one printer you might check to see if it has that capability.  And if not, like Crankyankee said, there are online services to do the OCR from image files.  

However I would need to de-staple the booklets to run them through the sheet feeder.  Making a pdf with the pages in the right order might be a bit tricky.  But I'm sure that is not a new problem and thus solutions must exist.

Regarding sustaining the forum, the other forum I referred to that is self-funded posts a plea for donations every couple of years.  Usually it takes just a few days to get enough donations to keep going for another couple of years.

Regarding sustaining a non-profit organization, one model I've seen used successfully is to solicit members to include the organization in their will.  Often this will enable the organization to hire (or provide grant matching funds for) an executive director who can take care of all the day-to-day tasks and help ensure that volunteers remain engaged and do not get burned out.

November 2, 2020
1:07 pm
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NW Lady
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I will gladly send a check for $100 to at least keep the website/forum going.  Tell me where to send it.  If we can just keep something alive... when we get past covid perhaps more can be added back in. 

 

I just retired last fall.  I was signed up to volunteer for the scion fair last march. ...alas... covid!!   Not sure if there would be anything I could volunteer for now that would at least keep the website/forums going.  I don't have any great computer skills.   Retired RN... that's all I got!!  

Digital quarterly mailing sounds like a great idea  for the present..... and the future if any of that would be possible.  

November 3, 2020
4:26 pm
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DanielW
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I would also be happy to throw in a c-note on a check too.

I did find my box of Pome newsletters.  My first revisiting them is the oldest was the1994, Spring issue.  I don't know how complete the box is between then and now, but it has quite a lot of issues.  I scanned in the oldest issue.  The pdf is 53,926 kB.  That was at 300 dpi.  I left out a small number of pages if they were solely a planned or proposed event. I tried an online pdf to text program and I guess that file was too big, it didn't work.  That issue is full of treasures and info.  It really shouldn't go unshared.  The articles:

Stark Brothers 1910 Catalog

Improving the Natives by Lon Rombough

Breeding Seedless Grapes by Lon Rombough

Bat Facts by Joanie Cooper

Chestnuts in the Pacific NW by Robert Rackham

Asian Pear Pest Control by Robert Rackham

Questions by Gene Single

Organic Corner by Ted Swensen  (Nontoxic fungicides, Life cycle of powdery mildew, sowbugs, coddling moth, plant seedling too tall, centipede vs. millipede)

Slender Spindle Tree Training by Loren Millls

Ingraham Apple by Joanie Cooper

Antiques and Heirlooms by Joanie Cooper

The Lincoln Pear by Joanie Cooper

Book Review:  The Apples of Maine (Review by Lon Rombough)

King David Apple by Joanie Cooper

Ft Vancouver Apple Tree by Larry McGraw

Stoneless Plums by Lon Rombough

The Peach, Krummel October by Joanie Cooper

Gardeners Calendar

A Microwave Method for the Curious (Jam recipe) by Jim Cox

Correct Pruning by Vaughn Fosmo

Training and Pruning Asian Pears by Robert Rackham

I mistakenly thought the Spring Issue was #1.  The Winter Issue is #1.  I think I will go ahead and scan in the winter issue and if I have time, the other quarters for starters.

The forum wouldn't let me upload the pdf.  I can email the pdf if I have an address to send it too.  It is sideways, but my generic pdf reader has a flipper function that fixes that, so I assume others do too.  Also, it's actually easier to read than the actual paper - brighter when backlit and I can make it bigger for my eyes.  PDF can also be read on a kindle reader.  Not sure about a nook.

I will make a goal to continue scanning them as time and my scanner printer allow.  That way, if they are wanted they will all be available.  No promises on timing, but I'm still in isolation and don't expect that to change soon.

November 3, 2020
10:39 pm
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Crankyankee
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The referee software for OCR is Omnipage. The standard version would do a bangup job once you get them scanned.

https://www.kofax.com/Products/omnipage/standard

My experience with Omnipage and OCR generally is that the higher the resolution image the more accurate the OCR transcription so keep that in mind as you set up your workflow. You can't have too high a resolution but you can have too low. Cameras are now much higher resolution than scanners. If you are careful, handheld 8 megapixel or greater cellphone photos work better than a scanner.

Tiff is best, PNG next best, JPG least best but acceptable if the resolution is high enough.                                   

Zone 6a in the moraines of eastern Connecticut.

November 4, 2020
7:10 am
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DanielW
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All of these ideas sound like there is some potential.

I will wait until further input from Jafar before doing anything more.  I don't want an issue with copyright or trademark or doing something that is not approved.  I think it would have to come from people who represent the organization.  Im glad there is interest in saving those as a resource.

November 5, 2020
2:54 pm
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John S
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Good news!

I just talked to Joanie, the president. She said that this forum will not close down on Dec. 31st and it is likely that it would continue through 2021.  During that meantime, we can have discussions about moderators, webmasters, and who would do what, to find a way for it to continue.

She says there is no need to donate money now, or volunteer until we figure out the details.

John S
PDX OR

November 5, 2020
7:29 pm
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jafar
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Yes, John, hopefully the HOS can pre-fund the maintenance for 2 or 3 years.  We'll have to see, I didn't want to make anything that might seem like promises ahead of working out some of the details - which are still to be worked out.

And BTW, the other site referred to is probably growingfruit.org  It was formed initially from the community that frequented Gardenweb's Fruit and Orchards forum before it was bought out and commercialized, and the usability was ruined. growingfruit.org  is the best run forum/site I've seen.

It is an excellent forum, very well run, full of insights and thoughtful people.  I've always viewed it as complementary to what we have here.  It's more nationwide, and a bit international.  Just a handful of folks from the PNW.

November 5, 2020
8:14 pm
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jekahrs
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Very sad. This forum offers diverse data on unusual cultivars from some very educated and interesting people. Having been a President of the local amateur winemaking club for 3 years, I understand how difficult this can be. We had a membership crisis and eventually came out of it. My thoughts are rather then just redesigning the website, maybe this is an opportunity to reconceptualize the organization. Below I have some thoughts which I am sure have already been thought of from time to time, but I'm kinda of an idea person and I never shy from expressing my opinion. If I am an ass or redundant, you can slap me silly. 

1) I never saw goals for membership or money on this site. I might have missed this because I log on maybe once a month. I am also very dense, or like many people I am having some money/health issues at this time. If money and membership are needed for the group, putting this information on the front page via thermometer (For example) are easy ways to communicate this information. Also, I have never met anyone from the HOS even though I went to the fall fruit fair. And at the fall fruit fair I also never got a sense of the organization's status. 

2) In the wine club we have monthly meetings where we did a variety of fun and educational things (tasting wine and speakers) and socialized. Obviously with Covid that changes everything. However, the advent of Zoom has changed everything. Not only can any number of people be there for a meeting for lecture, you can also bring in national speakers for informative information. You can even have time to socialize online. It's very cheap. There potentially could be four in person meetings which growing fruit really cannot do because of it's non-local nature. Athe Portland Winemakers Club we recently changed our meetings from a winery (which was free due to a special sponsor) to The Grange, which does cost money. But we raised our dues to make it work. Make it more then informative; Make it fun and a social organization where anyone can join and participate.

3) Are there any links to other organizations which might attract members and potentially help offset cost in exchange for advertising on the website like The Hardy Plant Society, One Green World, Portland Nursery, and the Portland Fruit Tree Project?

4) Is there potential to look for future sponsorship and money from agriculture organizations and municipal organizations. As the organization develops into a consistent Zoom oriented model, people would become more involved.

5) Make the website a resource for information, so people "hit" the website constantly. That also helps with potential advertising for sponsors.

6) Does this means no fruit or scion fair? What happens to the orchard?

7) What can be learned from Growingfruit.org?

8) Why not set up a Zoom meeting for this particular issue (advertise it well on this site), where people and organizations can be asked for their input. I'd give some notice and make sure people see it. Like I said, I log on sporadically. Also, have a half hour before and maybe an hour after for people to socialize.

OK, there it is. My numerous ideas to save the world. You can thank me later after all the ballots have been counted...

November 7, 2020
10:11 am
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John S
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Great post, Jekahrs.

These are the issues that we are talking about.  CLearly, there will be tremendous change in what comes out of this challenge.  I am intrigued by what we could make.  The Portland Fruit Tree Project teaches grafting, as does One Green World.  I don't think anyone else does a scion exchange or other aspects of Fruit Tree Propagation Fair.  Portland Nursery has their limited apple tasting.

Yes, connection with and coordination with other organizations makes sense, as does the evolution through zoom.

John S
PDX OR

November 8, 2020
9:24 pm
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NW Lady
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Thank you, Jekahrs!  Great Ideas!

So very happy to hear that the website will continue.  Using iZoom in ways that have been mentioned is an excellent idea.  If various meeting used zoom, it would allow folks to might not otherwise be able or willing to participate as board members to take a position... be active in planning events, etc.

I saw the note that said no extra money is needed at this time and volunteer opportunities are TBD. 

Again, happy to volunteer

November 9, 2020
9:43 am
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katmendeux
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Hi, All,

I may have the rather dubious distinction of probably being the last person to join HOS, and I'm really, really sorry to hear about the problems. I'm not at all concerned about the dues. It's the "what might have been" that is sad. I've looked over the forum topics, for example, and there is simply no place else and no other source for these exchanges. I've got lots and lots of questions, and you very good folks are only ones who know this stuff.  I'd also really like to talk to "birds of a feather" about fruit. HOS seemed the perfect fit. It's good to hear the forums will continue, but I join with all of you who hope for a continuing HOS, and can invest some time in the group.

Here's my question -- what happened to the fall POME News. When I joined, I got the summer issue in the mail. Read it. Loved it. Waited for the fall issue. Since I didn't know when to expect it, I emailed the editor to make sure I hadn't missed it. He sent me a very friendly, welcoming reply on Oct 20. That was, what, three weeks ago? He said they were finalizing it, and would be mailing it late Oct - early Nov. Last Friday, I got a package with two older issues, which was nice. Sadly, I also got a letter saying HOS was going toes up. Is the fall issue still on its way? Otherwise, what happened? No money? No time? No help? A final straw? If the HOS can keep going, I think it's important to keep the quarterly alive.

Like some other people here, I've been a newsletter editor. To do all the work it takes to get a quarterly ready to go and then have it hit the compost bin is a shame. While we're thinking over long-term solutions, is there a way or a will to salvage that issue? Could the articles go on your website? If the issue is one big file, could it go to the Cloud? Years ago, I used Dropbox. Maybe something like that would work. I could look into it, if you think it would useful. I'm pretty geeky, even though I'm a dinosaur.

What's that quote from Mark Twain about reports of his death being greatly exaggerated? From some of the other posts on this thread, there may still be hope.

Best regards,

katmendeux

November 10, 2020
3:58 pm
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Crankyankee
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Here is a web page for the Back Yard Fruit Growers out of Pennsylvania. They don't have a message board and the newsletters are password protected but it looks like they have a long history and are still active. I notice that they have a scion exchange similar to the HOS.

Maybe they would be interested in participating in an online venue.

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dailey/byfg.html

"Backyard Fruit Growers (BYFG) started in 1990 as a quarterly assembly for exchange of information among amateurs in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania who wanted to produce good fruit for the family, propagate heirloom varieties, try new varieties and flavors, and respect and improve the backyard environment."

Zone 6a in the moraines of eastern Connecticut.

November 10, 2020
8:02 pm
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jafar
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I believe the final edition of the Pome news was mailed Monday (yesterday).

November 11, 2020
9:35 am
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John S
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I have not yet received the last edition.

John S
PDX OR

November 12, 2020
6:24 pm
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jafar
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Mine just arrived today.  

November 13, 2020
10:36 pm
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Hello, this is my first post to the HOS, although I have been aware of your organization for awhile and did attend one of your fall fruit festivals a few years ago. I wanted to bring up a few points as you discuss the next phase of HOS. I am a master gardener from Eugene, OR and have developed a strong interest in “fruits for the backyard”.

- To whomever suggested reinventing the organization, I would encourage you to do look at it. My impression of HOS is that it is focused on the Portland area, although its mission states PNW. Which are you?

- Personally, I am looking for the PNW version of the forum at growingfruit.org, with the panache of the forum at ourfigs.com. A place for active, online discussions about growing backyard fruit in the PNW focused on the opportunities and issues of our climate zone 8.

- I saw a comment made that there is no other local scion exchange. There is a very active organization sponsoring propagation fairs every year which used to be called the Spring Propagation Fair (https://springpropagationfair.com) and has transitioned into the Agrarian Sharing Network (Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/agrariansharingnetwork/permalink/2725684781013929)

- I really like the Lancaster County, Pennsylvania Back Yard Fruit Growers mission statement, it could be used as a model for a similar one for whatever area HOS reinvents itself to focus on (Portland-area, PNW-zone-8, other).

November 14, 2020
8:14 am
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katmendeux
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Hi nholmquist,

Great links! Lots to think about, and some good ideas about how HOS could re-invent itself.

Thanks.

katmendeux

November 14, 2020
4:36 pm
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Jay
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Hi everyone.  I'm new to the forum, but my wife and I have been members of HOS for a couple of years. Just got the email yesterday about HOS closure, and just read all the above posts on this topic.

We are relatively new fruit tree growers (with a growing collection of young trees), experienced oyster growers, and generally interested in local food production. We live on the Oregon coast.

In addition, I have over twenty years experience as a software developer, Web developer, and webmaster, and currently maintain several Web servers.

We've learned a lot from membership in HOS, and we are very interested in seeing its work continued. Therefore, if no other solution has yet been found, I offer to host and maintain the website, the forum, and the newsletter (in electronic format, probably as a blog). I'm offering to do this at no charge.  Down the line, if the server expenses become more than I can cover, then maybe other folks will want to make voluntary contributions.  Also, I don't currently have the time myself to write articles or participate in forum discussions, but I can provide the tools for members to submit and publish content.

If you decide to go with my offer, I would need probably 3-4 months to get things set up on my servers, so hopefully in the meantime the current site can remain active.

November 15, 2020
10:31 am
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Hi Jay and everybody,

Wow! What a remarkable and generous offer. Thank you. I (army of one) think we should sort out the details, work with the leadership, and find a way to get to yes. What do the rest of you think?

Still hoping to see the HOS rise like a Phoenix,

katmendeux

November 16, 2020
9:19 pm
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jafar
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Jay said
Hi everyone.  I'm new to the forum, but my wife and I have been members of HOS for a couple of years. Just got the email yesterday about HOS closure, and just read all the above posts on this topic.

We are relatively new fruit tree growers (with a growing collection of young trees), experienced oyster growers, and generally interested in local food production. We live on the Oregon coast.

In addition, I have over twenty years experience as a software developer, Web developer, and webmaster, and currently maintain several Web servers.

We've learned a lot from membership in HOS, and we are very interested in seeing its work continued. Therefore, if no other solution has yet been found, I offer to host and maintain the website, the forum, and the newsletter (in electronic format, probably as a blog). I'm offering to do this at no charge.  Down the line, if the server expenses become more than I can cover, then maybe other folks will want to make voluntary contributions.  Also, I don't currently have the time myself to write articles or participate in forum discussions, but I can provide the tools for members to submit and publish content.

If you decide to go with my offer, I would need probably 3-4 months to get things set up on my servers, so hopefully in the meantime the current site can remain active.  

Thank you for the generous offer.  I'll share it with the board.

And to other folks with ideas and offers of support, I apologize, I'm not able to keep up with everything.  I'll try to circle back.

The organization is shutting down.  Let's focus first on what we can do with this forum/site.  If we maintain this venue, we can use it to discuss what sorts of things some of us may like to organize or do in the future.

November 18, 2020
9:08 am
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Heather Keisler Keisler Fornes
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All,

I'm the Executive Director of Portland Fruit Tree Project and would be interested in talking to board members/leaders regarding if there is a way that PFTP can offer support or resources in this challenging time.

Please feel free to get in touch with me at heather@portlandfruit.org!

Heather Keisler Fornes

November 18, 2020
1:53 pm
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John S
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Heather: Thanks for reaching out.

katmendeux: I got my Fall Pome News a few days ago.

Nholmquist: The activities vary from Canby to Oregon City, Milwaukie, to Washington County.  Members have been from many places. Tours have been all over the Willamette Valley. It really depends on where we can get volunteers from.  As you probablly know, half of OR's population is in the Portland area. Agrarian sharing network is very different from HOS. Scion exhanges in CA don't count. 

John S
PDX OR

November 25, 2020
8:03 pm
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jafar
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Jay said
Hi everyone.  I'm new to the forum, but my wife and I have been members of HOS for a couple of years. Just got the email yesterday about HOS closure, and just read all the above posts on this topic.

We are relatively new fruit tree growers (with a growing collection of young trees), experienced oyster growers, and generally interested in local food production. We live on the Oregon coast.

In addition, I have over twenty years experience as a software developer, Web developer, and webmaster, and currently maintain several Web servers.

We've learned a lot from membership in HOS, and we are very interested in seeing its work continued. Therefore, if no other solution has yet been found, I offer to host and maintain the website, the forum, and the newsletter (in electronic format, probably as a blog). I'm offering to do this at no charge.  Down the line, if the server expenses become more than I can cover, then maybe other folks will want to make voluntary contributions.  Also, I don't currently have the time myself to write articles or participate in forum discussions, but I can provide the tools for members to submit and publish content.

If you decide to go with my offer, I would need probably 3-4 months to get things set up on my servers, so hopefully in the meantime the current site can remain active.  

Jay, I'll send you a PM with my contact information.  If you are still willing, let's talk.

If you don't have access to the PM, you can use the contact form at the top right which will get routed to our president, and she'll give you my personal contact information.

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