Hello-
As part of converting a grassy urban property into a food garden, I'm curious whether grafting an Asian plum onto an ornamental plum, and a "Big Apple" dogwood on an ornamental dogwood, would eventually be successful.
Are they compatible? If I did everything right with the grafts themselves, would the grafts survive and set fruit? I'd prefer to not take the existing trees out, so any advice on converting these two very beautiful but non-edible varieties to edibles would be much appreciated.
PS: The plum actually produces a few olive sized fruit that are edible, however the tree is quite large and fruit is not harvestable.
Thanks in advance.
(you're welcome 
) I think the Asian plum to ornamental would work; it’s said ‘Asian to Euro’ is a strong and long-lived connection – and I’m pretty sure the ‘ornamental’ is of European ancestry. If it’s Asian… all the better.
I don’t think the Apple to Dogwood will work… without getting technical. If anyone knows different - I suspect they’ll check in.
Now, about those beautiful trees... new grafts will need sun to grow, lots of sun, like a new little tree. If the grafts are made under the canopy or shaded for most of the day they won’t prosper or grow into the limbs necessary to become productive. So a lot of that beautiful tree will have to disappear… Also, there will be very tempting and delicate scions obviously grafted in its place. Having done an extensive repair job on a friends tree … neither of us considered its proximity to the sidewalk and school it led to. Consequently, the young grafts were destroyed 
If you decide to go for it, you’ll need some dormant scions; the bark is too thick to Bud graft – and you want the grafts as close to the trunk as possible, not ‘out on a limb.’ As you just missed our scion exchange, here’s an opportunity to score some wood: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4011 …though I was very disappointed with the small diameter Asian plum wood at our show, and to some degree, size matters; it makes for a more substantial piece to work with. A. plum is often ‘peffy’ or hollow, larger is better – especially when bark grafting.
Know how to bark, or “Rind Graft?†If not… you missed that presentation, too. But since I’m the guy who led it, I’m open to questions. Actually, it’s the easiest graft I know. One long slanting cut on the scion; an upside-down (inverted) ‘L’ cut on ‘slipping bark’ (about a month from now); slide in the scion, cut face to wood; nail it through; putty and seal the gaps; paint with yellow ‘Doc’ and hope passers by leave it the hell alone.
Whadaya think?
Thanks for the quick reply! I was planning on using a bark graft and believe it has a reasonable chance to survive in regards to sunlight (the canopy starting at 10 feet off the ground) and curious kids as well 
I wish I knew what variety the plum is but inherited it w/o label. Since it's almost done blooming, I was told it's probably an Asian plum. I was also told that a European variety would be less compatible than an Asian plum. So it's good to get your thoughts, sounds like it's not as straight forward as I imagined.
The existing dogwood is a Japanese dogwood, and dogwood I'm thinking on grafting to it is a Chinese dogwood called 'Big Apple' (http://www.rainyside.com/features/plant ... Apple.html) - apologies, I should have made that more clear. I would probably check with Raintree Nursery if they might have any (still dormant) scions for this one since they sell this variety, IF the consensus is that they're compatible.
Any additional thoughts?
Haiku,
Got it! Dogwood to Dogwood sounds fine. Are you seeking the ‘fruits?’ It does describe ‘Big Apple’ as needing a second variety to pollinate it, which I assume you’d have from the remainder of the base (Dogwood) tree. …I’m amazed at the combinations some have done around here ... but didn’t think apple to dogwood was one of them 
Keep in mind, with your ‘fruiting plums’ starting at ten feet… that’s going to place them quite high in the tree. …they’d likely be worth the climb, if not the fall… If you go for it, shoot for a couple of varieties that will pollinate each other, I wouldn’t count on the base tree; plus, two varieties can extend the harvest.
And if the plum’s Asian, perfect. If not, I’m told ‘that combination’ is still solid and long lasting.
Make sure you procure some dormant plum wood, the more the merrier!
[quote="greenthumb1981":30xsyc4o] The rind graft sounds very interesting. Do you have a link to a graphic or pictorial presentation, if not; when will you be doing another class on this? [/quote:30xsyc4o]
In older trees, it’s one of the few grafts that will work. Plus, it’s just a Slick Graft!
…I may let you search it, and don’t have anything on it myself ...beyond the presentation I give at our annual grafting classes at CCC … which will roll around one year minus about 3 weeks from right now…
It’s an easy graft if you understand the concept – and – have dormant scions about a month from now. Just for fun, I’ve got a project planned for a friend with a pear tree. It already has three varieties, but they’re only ‘pears.’ I plan (on a warm afternoon in a few weeks, pre-beer) to bark graft, via the ‘inverted L,’ 3 scions of Winter Banana apple. It’s one of few “Apple to Pear†combinations that work; one scion will remain pure Banana apple; one will also have a Wolf River apple (whip & tongue) grafted to the Banana ap; a third will have a Winesap done the same… The W.B. ap will become an “interstem†for the other two, the challenge will be making two grafts at the same time.
Be careful – this stuff’s addictive 
Viron:
We should make a contest to see how many species across we could graft our way through.
An easy one is
apple -> pear
i am attempting
hawthorne -> pear
hawthorne -> asian pear
what about
apple -> pear -> asian pear -> hawthorne -> etc...
But wouldn't it be interesting to see how far you could go? I wonder what the world record is for this sort of thing.
[quote="haiku.1":1ox8h1ro] Raintree doesn't have any but suggested grafting buds from one of their trees.[/quote:1ox8h1ro]
Depending on the thickness of the bark, buds may not work. If you’re going high on that tree, too …you will find ‘newer wood’ up there.
You’d Bud (graft) later this summer… but I wouldn’t mess with it, I’d procure some dormant Dogwood … from where, I don’t know..?
[quote="jadeforrest":k5vib9sw]Viron:
We should make a contest to see how many species across we could graft our way through.
…But wouldn't it be interesting to see how far you could go? I wonder what the world record is for this sort of thing.[/quote:k5vib9sw]
Your youth is showing 
…man, I graft for beer, not records! The real trick would be how many you could make go at the same time! …six, maybe eight whip & tongues … with one bud each..? Or why leave a bud, just use a half inch of stock! …you’re gonna have to hang around for one of our tailgaters… not only might we have put you to work, this is the kind of craziness we indulge in …along with (real) cider. …and if you didn’t do the cider – you’d be the sharpest guy on the lot!
I look forward to the day when I can get beer for grafting!
It would be fun to do a competition at the scion exchange. A bunch of people would graft as many interstems as they could. Put their names on it, and see who has the most surviving segments at the all about fruit show. Someone could plant them all in the same place so they are all treated the same.
It would be fun: both involving skill and strategy, and a true test of grafting prowess.
haiku=
I may be able to get you some edible Cornus kousa scions. Contact me off list if you're interested. THey're still dormant if I recall correctly.
John S
PDX OR
skyjs@yahoo.com
[quote="haiku.1":2g7t7xpg] …I'm targeting one of the five trunks low to ground. [/quote:2g7t7xpg]
If you’ve got five ‘trunks,’ or stocks… their diameters may be good for cleft grafting, too. Though I still prefer bark grafting… some find cleft grafting easier, and there are all kind of examples of that online. You’d still need dormant scions, but could graft at any time. The good part about bark (or rind) grafting is how easy it is to slip in extra scions below the terminal or stock-end cut. Those scions help feed the tree, but in the case of a five-trucked tree, it would likely feed its root system just fine with the two or three remaining uprights.
As the first two or three grafted ‘trunks’ established themselves, in two or three years, you could graft over the rest. Yes, five trunks add a different demotion to your project.
I envisioned ‘one’ well established trunk/tree, and I’m assuming this is the ‘plum’ tree? If you’ve got multiple trunks, you can go low … baring you’re not near a school! Hey, some Tanglefoot smeared around the grafting area might deter curious fingers..?
[quote="haiku.1":2g7t7xpg] so if I get this to work, do you all owe me beer (or a cider?) [/quote:2g7t7xpg]
…shouldn’t that be the other way around…
Idyllwild
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Viron
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