I just took Viron's suggestion and read Manhart's "Apples for the 21st Century". An outstanding book. I also read the website called Cox's Orange Pippin. I find the topic intriguing. Like the authors of those books, I find my favorite apple varieties to be those of very strong flavors-apples that can be used to make cider alone.
I am curious as to what some other people on this site might list as some of their favorite gourmet apple varieties. I would have to say that some of mine would be Red McIntosh, Goldrush, King David, and Black Twig, which I just tried at the All about fruit show.
Does anybody on this site grow Spitzenberg, Newtown Pippin, Cox's Orange Pippin, Tydeman's Late Orange, Karmijn da Sonneville, or other varieties listed on these sites? How do they do for you?
John S
PDX OR
Because of that book, I have Ashmead's Kernel, Grimes Golden, Hudson's Golden Gem, Liberty, Melrose, Spitzenberg, and Tydeman's Late Orange. The only one that's been in the ground long enough to produce anything is the Ashmead. The apples are wonderful, and something got them before I did, insinuating its/their way into each one this year.
The other half dozen trees haven't been in the ground a year yet, so it's going to be a while before I have anything to report.
mh
In selecting the varieties of apple for the trees I was planting, I kept in mind the following passage/quote from Michael Pollan's book "The Botany of Desire". Pollan is citing Phil Forsline, apple curator at the USDA Experiment Station (Geneva NY).
"A century ago there were several thousand different varieties of apples in commerce; now most apples we grow have the same five or six parents: Red Delicious, Golden Delicious, Jonathan, Macintosh and Cox's Orange Pippin. Breeders keep going back to the same well and it's getting shallower." (pp 51 & 52) "It's a question of biodiversity", Forsline said . . . Every time an old apple variety drops out of cultivation, a set of genes -- which is to say a set of qualities of taste and color and texture, as well as hardiness and pest resistance -- vanishes from the earth. (p. 53)
Personally, I tried to select varieties different and not derived from those varieties listed above so that I could grow and hopefully retain some of the genetic heritage of heirloom varieties. But in seeking older varieties, I was also seeking apples with good keeping/storage characteristics. I seek to reduce the energy consumption requirements of my food relating to its storage as a necessary part of reducing my overall energy use. As such, when applying old time storage practices it may be necessary to depend on older varieties of apple noted for their storage characteristics.
I have similar attitudes with regard to issues relating to natural pest resistance vis a vis agricultural chemical applications. And with volunteering at the HOS orchard, I learned that there are wonderful varieties with smaller sized fruits -- what a concept ! ! ! Not everything has to be supersized.
Long ago inspired by HOS AAF Shows taste comparisons and what books I could find on the subject, my Apple selections are 25 years in. My “favorite†was already on location, an ancient Gravenstein; tender, early and crisp, its blend of sweet-tart is unique. Problem is, they’re gone in a relatively short time…
But then come the Kings, Golden Delicious, Braeburns, Winesaps and Granny Smiths … with a multitude of others mixed in for fun, those are my heavy producers.
Stretching the season is important to me – how’s that saying go..? ‘My favorite apple’s the last one I ate!’ And you can only eat so many – which leads me to other uses, bringing other characteristics to the forefront. I’ve Wolf River apples still hanging, but won’t juice or fresh eat them, they’re best for cooking! My advice is to plant for consistency, use, storage, and an extended season; additional branches of “gourmet apples†for fresh eating are easy enough to add to your base producers.
A problem for me has been the addition of other fruit varieties… Gravenstein's are fantastic… until my Asian plums come on, my preference. Mid-season apples are nice, until the figs are ripe… Late season apples have some new competition for fresh eating from my Hardy kiwi. I’ve also been ‘crunching’ the first of my Persimmon crop … while walking past trees full of Braeburn apples.
Yesterday I cleaned the apple trees for one last pressing of apple juice. The main blend will be (Stamen) Winesap, Braeburn, Golden Del., and Granny Smith. Most of my ‘gourmet’ apples and pears end up as fresh juice, but nobody’s complaining 
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I just tried some of the more famous gourmet varieties from the Portland State farmers' market. The most outstanding in my opinion was Spitzenberg. It had a refreshing, citrus-like, complex flavor. I also had Newton Pippin, Winesap, Arkansas Black and Black Twig. When I had Black Twig at the AAFS, it was one of the most outstanding fruit I've had in my life. These three were good and tart, but not outstanding.
Michael Phillips, in "The Apple Grower" says the fruit that is not organically grown doesn't have the nutrition or flavor that the organic does. I know my own Red McIntosh, when I grow it organically and pick it from the tree, is spectacular, and many who've eaten them have told me so as well. I wonder how much of the difference is how long ago it was picked and if it's grown organically.
I do find it quite interesting that Marnhart was talking about how Gala is better when grown in a hotter climate, but Cox's Orange Pippin never gets great there, but only becomes spectacular in a cooler harvest climate, like ours.
John S
PDX OR
John,
I’ve got a Spitzenberg tree; consistent bearing, with the same complexity you described – they were just blended with 15 gallons of fresh juice this morning!
Years ago… likely around 15, I spotted an apple seedling along the gravel road. I grafted some Wolf River and apparently some Spitz onto it. Just this year I noticed fruit – apparently, so did the large Black bear I’d spotted due East! I’d hiked down to taste the apples and found, not only did the tree have Aerial Crown Gall, but bear claw marks on an upright limb he’d broken off. The limb will be turned into a walking stick… but the apples he couldn’t get were fantastic, seemingly better than ‘my tree.’
This Spitzenberg is growing in rich soil and full sun; mine is on a clay subsoil hill with majority morning sun. I bought my Spitzenberg already grafted and suspect the scions on the ‘wild tree’ were from the HOS exchange (explaining the crown gall). Strange, no sign of Wolf Rivers…
Back in my gorilla grafting days, I’d also put some Arkansas Black and a Ben Davis on several seedling trees nearer my orchard. Now competing with 17 year old Doug fir trees, and though I can’t remember which they are – one just had an outstanding year, the deer are plenty pleased!
I also had a Newton Pippin tree… Planted in the same subsoil as the Spitz, it eventually died. Bad location for sure, but it’s been rare to lose an apple tree. It was a difficult tree to find; trekked to Portland Nursery’s eastern outpost to get it. Leggy and weak, though the best of two, I gave it a shot. I loved the apples, always had. With so many grown in Hood River I’d bought them for years from local grocery stores and miss them as most “green apples†have become Granny Smiths.
My suspicion with organic vs. non is location. Non organic apples are likely growing on the same worn-out soil that’s been growing stuff for a century around here. “Organic†fruit seems to come from protected nooks and crannies, smaller plots of less depleted soils.
Out here, in ‘wine country,’ the subtle divisions of flavor usually include a stressed plant, if not for nutrients, heat. In the hills, my garden is always behind those in Portland, and so are my fruit trees. Maybe they develop a more intense flavor as they strive to ripen… usually three weeks behind their counterparts in the valley. They say that’s what distinguishes the Pinot wines from their easily maturing California equivalents.
There remain tales of an apple not tasting ‘quite like’ the one they remembered “back home.†Had one of Shaun’s (HOS VP) magnificent apple cider’s last night {thanks again 
" title="Laughing" /> } – he says one of the problems with marketing hard cider is the fact there’s so little consistency between batches. Every year produces subtle differences depending on the climate. Much like the wine industry… Humm, perhaps you’ve simply become an apple connoisseur " title="Wink" />
While soil conditions (moisture, minerals, nutrients, etc), competition, weather and micro-climates certainly influence flavor of fruit, don't overlook the obvious -- freshness.
There was an article I read this summer that indicated that vegetables lost significant levels (like half or more) of their food value/nutrients in a week's period of storage (even refrigerated storage). I have to believe that similar nutrient (and therein flavor) losses apply with regard to fruits. When I started vegetable gardening, I was anticipating organic/pesticide free veggies from preferred varieties. The flavors of freshness were totally unanticipated and incomparable. What an amazing difference ! ! !
Further it is obvious that foods absorb flavors and tastes from the items that surround them in strorage. If an individual is buying and eating apples stored for extended periods of time in cardboard boxes in large coolers next to pallets of cabbages, onions and turnips, the taste of that variety of apple will never come close to "fresh off the tree". More likely this fruit's flavors will include the distinctive 'hints' of cardboard, cabbage, etc. Yummy ....
Also being able to pick at optimum ripeness levels of ripeness needs to be considered as well. Factory farms and orchards pick not for ripeness but instead based on production schedules and for profit maximization. Flavor and freshness are not line items on a profit and loss statement.
I am so happy to have found the Home Orchard Society to teach and help me (and others) about the growing of good food for me, my family and friends. Thank you.
For me it has to be Rubinette Rosso, perhaps not very widely known, but a really excellent flavour. It's a cross between Cox's Orange Pippin and Golden Delicious (a combination that often leads to great-tasting varieties). I remember being at a tasting in a large trial orchard last year, and after trying Rubinette Rosso the general opinion was - why bother to taste anything else.
I would add there is also context. The best apple I ever ate was a Winesap I bought at a roadside stand in S Vermont after a glorious mountain bike ride on a crisp sunny fall day about 22 years ago. However, the Pink Lady I just finished was pretty good too. 
Would love some hard cider apple recommendations from this group, as well as good keepers. And, do folks have preferred apple rootstocks for this region (willamette valley)?
I am of course looking for best fresh eating, best for hard and fresh cider, best for pie, best for keeping in a root cellar over winter....best for this climate.
Me, I like a good gravenstein, arkansas black, and whatever those green apples are that I bought from Herman the farmer at People's last week. I will be sure to ask him.
The smaller sized apple I tasted at the HOS CCC orchard was called Sun Tan. Karen thinks very highly of this variety and I agree. It had very good flavor (fresh eating) and I thought it would be an interesting apple for cooking. It's diameter was about 2 inches (5 cm) -- were I to make a cobbler or crisp with it, I would be tempted to cut it in half (at the equator), core it with a melon baller, and then set them (unpeeled) in the baking dish all cut side down.
As an emigre' from the inhospitable winter weather of the Midwest flatlands, I have yet to figure out a suitable construction design for a fruit cellar in the Willamette Valley. I don't believe it would be sufficiently cold or that would not fill up with water.
Katy, I may see a match: “The best apple I ever ate was a Winesap I bought at a roadside stand in S Vermont…†&: “I am of course looking for best fresh eating, best for hard and fresh cider, best for pie, best for keeping in a root cellar over winter....best for this climate.â€
I highly recommend (Stayman) Winesap apples. 
- this one looks like mine. My tree is 25 years in, I put it there. It is by far the most productive and consistent producer of any of my apples. The tree is strong; the vigor, or lack of, in some newer varieties does not impress me.
Though it’s difficult to deem an apple “the best†of anything, Winesaps would certainly hold their own within your criteria.
What’s the difference between a “Stayman Winesap†and a ‘just plain’ Winesap? …my best recollection is very few ‘real Winesaps’ are grown anymore and that the “Stayman†moniker describes a newer apple (though around quite awhile now) most commonly grown and considered superior to the ‘original.’ I could look it up … maybe Orangepippin has the facts? But it’s a late apple, perhaps too late for Britain..?
Lee, good point on root cellars. As child labor for my father and favorite uncle, we dug and they built a magnificent root cellar; outside of Redland, east of Oregon City at around 700 feet. A totally worthless project! It never got cold enough outside to keep the inside cold enough to store anything, not even potatoes. I’ve a great book including much about root cellaring… but no mention of it in Oregon … as our maritime climate appears to preclude it. But winter gardens work 
The books describe Winesap as older, smaller and more tart than Stayman Winesap. Stayman Winesap has indeed become much more popular than winesap. I tried a winesap at the farmer's market. It was one of the varieties that was good, but I'm sure would be much better off my own organic tree. I have also tried stayman winesap at the AAFS and thought highly enough of it to list it as one to try to graft.
John S
PDX OR
Viron: I am coming to believe that a cellar dug into the ground in the lower elevations of the Willamette Valley would not work because the soil temperatures are too moderate. These soils certainly don't have the 3, 4, 6 foot freeze depths as exist in parts of the East and Midwest.
My notions (needing substantiation) suggest that an above ground system that allowed pulling in colder night air (closed during the warmer daytime temps) and which might be supplimented with a refrigeration/air-conditioning unit. If this is more energy efficient (utilizing less power than multiple refrigerators) I just don't know; it is something that needs to be determined/calculated. If my energy regarding construction efforts is factored in, I think purchased units used on a part-time, seasonal basis will be the solution.
I was able to check out a copy of Apples for the 21st Century from the local library. I look forward to reading it
Regarding Lee's comment about storing fruit next to cabbages, onions, and cardboard, it can work the other way too. I stored some of my Wickson crabapples next to my Crimea quince, and the fragrance of the quince infused into the flavor of the Wickson, making it even more complex, delicious, and aromatic.
I think the above-ground storage makes sense. When I was growing up, we had a fruit room cellar that was a part of the basement but had cement floors and walls. It stayed very cool and worked as a fruit room to store fruit and other things. Due to the hilly nature of the neighborhood, it was above ground on one side of the house and below on the other.
Last year I stored fruit in my basement and in my unheated garage. The fruit lasted much better in the unheated garage, because it was cooler.
John S
PDX OR
I can't give a first hand grower's perspective, but I can give an eater's perspective. All of the apples were grown in the Willamette Valley. I tried to eat a wide variety this fall, partly because I like to and partly to see what I might like to try growing. Also to see what would be worth eating in some quantity, displacing my usual Liberty, Enterprise, and Goldrush. So when I say I didn't find an apple special, it doesn't mean it was bad, just that it compared to the usuals, it didn't add to my enjoyment. Also I tasted lots that I didn't buy; what follows is stuff that made it home in enough quantity to really test.
Ashmead's Kernel. The first one was a WOW experience. The others ranged from a couple of WOWs to just "OK, this is good." Had a unique flavor.
Belle de Boskoop. Only got a few, but quite nice.
Brown Russet. Nice texture, not exciting taste wise.
Calville Blance. Not exciting taste wise, texture unappealing.
Cox Orange Pippin. Not memorable.
Elstar. Quite nice.
Empire. Not memorable.
Gold Blush. Not memorable.
Golden Russet. Good but not great.
Golden Supreme. Quite nice for a sweet apple.
Granny Smith. Had to try some that had been allowed to ripen further on the tree; even had some red. Not exciting.
Grimes Golden. Every time it made me wonder if it should have ripened longer on the tree.
Holstein. Quite nice.
Newtown Pippin. Quite nice. One grower had some "seconds" with scab (didn't spray); they didn't look bad so took some and they too tasted fine.
Orin. Not exciting. Sweet.
Roxbury Russet. Quite nice, but browns as fast as it is eaten.
Spitzenberg. Quite nice.
Stayman Winesap. Good but not great flavor. Held shape in pie.
Swiss Gourmet. Quite nice.
In addition to the above purchased apples, there were two varieties I got to taste that made very positive impressions. Hudson's Golden Gem and Sweet Sixteen. These were at the show in October so I don't know where they were grown, but they should be local.
quokka,
Do you have a source for Goldrush and Golden Russet?
I've had a few Golden Russets from teh grocery store lately and I thought they've been wonderful. These are the best apples I've had in the last year.
I called my dad in Yakima and asked if he could locate a box to bring for Thanksgiving and he asked a couple of orchardists and they didn't know what he was talking about.
I guess I could go back to the store and buy out what they have for $1.50/lb or whatever they're charging, but I'd prefer something more economical.
jafarji:
The golden russets here were really not wonderful. I just ate one in fact. And they are $1.50/lb. If you want I can try to get a bulk discount on some when I see the orchardist on Wednesday, but my guess is if I shipped to you there will be no net savings. Goldrush were actually $2.00/lb this year. Let me know if I can do anything to help.
Thank you Viron for the match, I will add Stayman Winesap to my fantasy orchard list....the apple I got from Hermann the Farmer at the Peoples Farmer's Market is a (I presume) german variety called Glocken: a green apple that made great tarts and was fine in hand eating as well, especially if allowed to yellow on the countertop a while. And Hermann uses it for cider which he drinks every day since he can no longer sell it at the market. 
Viron, do you know/remember the rootstock for your tree?
Anyone in this group have a Glocken (mean's "little bell" I think) tree? I may try to barter for a scion or two from Hermann otherwise....
Katy: “Viron, do you know/remember the rootstock for your tree?â€
‘Remember’ is the key word… it’s been in for nearly 25 years… I don’t know ... I do know it was a “semi-dwarf†– which of course could mean about anything. It’s in some very rich soil but has developed, having been pruned every year, into a very manageable tree, likely topping out around ten feet, with good width.
…I’d been feeding boxes of Winesaps to some local horses this fall. They would pick amongst the other apples specifically for the Winesaps! -- Then look up at me with juice pouring from their mouths ... I could smell the Winesaps from about 20 feet away!
I’ve never heard of a “Gloken,†but had a Grandfather called Hermann 
I went down to New Seasons grocery store and bought the following varieties of gourmet apples: Rubinette, Ashmead's Kernel, Calville Blanc D'hiver, Arkansas Black, and Jazz. The best tasting, surprisingly, in my opinion was Jazz. I don't doubt that a properly picked off the tree apple of any of the other varieties would taste more complex and richer than the Jazz apple.
However, I had bought them in a grocery store. Jazz is the only one of those apples designed to buy in a grocery store. The others are centuries old, way before grocery stores. The only one that had hints of interesting flavor was Ashmead's Kernel. Rubinette tasted like a grocery store Golden Delicious. The others were average tart apples. Ashmead's had the texture that the gourmets sometimes talk about in an English apple: Uneven, dry,high density. I think this is what they mean by "chewy".
I am now starting to think that I'm going to have to grow these apples in order to taste them properly or be invited to someone's house who is currently growing them. I have only grown one Goldrush apple but it was completely spectacular off my tree, amazingly unlike any of these other gourmet varieties when bought in a grocery store. Well the anticipation is killing me, but I guess I have something to look forward to now.
John S
PDX OR
Jazz is a very good apple. And I guess they are doing a lot of quality control on it to ensure the "brand" is preserved. I would grow Jazz if I could.
For me, the popular apples have evolved this way:
Fuji -> Honeycrisp -> Jazz
For a store-bought apple, Jazz is pretty hard to beat. The patent was filed in 2001, so it will be a while before we can plant it ourselves.
Also have to vote for Suntan, it is my very best. Another real good one is a chance seedling of McIntosh growing in my Uncle's back yard. I do not know what the other parent was. It is much firmer than McIntosh.... 'what isn't'? The tree is suc. to scab and mildew, so has nada commercial value, but a very decent fruit and the tree is smaller like a 'Golden Delicious' size wise, so it is easy to prune and spray.
Boizeau,
I agree with you about McIntosh in a grocery store. My red McIntosh at my house, however, is perfectly crisp. It pops every time you take a bite. It is outstanding. I have never had a grocery store McIntosh that was remotely similar, but it is very similar to the McIntoshes that I ate while working in an apple orchard in upper New York State. I dont' think that any grocery store apple will compete with one from your yard, although the Galas from my yard are rather boring and bland, I must say.
John S
PDX OR
Most of the Mac Hybrids lost a bit of that 'tang' when they improved in the other areas, like scab resistance. Spartan is more 'resistant' but tends to overcrop and has less flavor.........Ditto for Macoun, which is almost as Scab Suc. as the parent.
Have heard that MacFree is pretty good, but never had a chance to taste it.
My 'mac seedling has a fair amount of the sharp flavor, and is a naturally semi dwarf tree, but it is suc. to scab and anthracnose too.
I have a large seedling right next to it that is coming down this winter.
That should reduce the fungus problem a bit.
I have been exploring some of the PRI releases such as goldrush, sundance, pristine, crimson crisp, priscilla and others. They really taste pretty good, are usually hard-crisp, and have good storage capabilities. Also I like that they need no fungal sprays ever. I plastic-bag the fruit so most of them are worm free. Had some Goldrushes keep for a whole year in the fruit bin of the fridge in their little ziploc bags.
Goldrush is suppose to make a very good stand alone cider too, which seems like a bonus!
Apparently the PRI apple breeding program over the decades went through 380,000 seedlings to arrive at around 45 or so decent "keepers".
[quote="plumfun":4vtyqyp4]IHad some Goldrushes keep for a whole year in the fruit bin of the fridge in their little ziploc bags.[/quote:4vtyqyp4]
Finally had to set the old Goldrushes out for deer to munch to make room in the apple-frig for the incoming crop!
My deer much prefer the new Goldrushes, but beggers cannot be choosy.
I have fallen head over heels for the Blue Pearmain. Having fairly recently found the joys of heirloom fruits and veggies, I decided to try one of each of the old varieties at our local PYO orchard last fall. Down in the back corner they had a half dozen trees tucked away where few people ever venture, being content to fill their bags with Macintosh, Cortland, and Granny Smith's.
Almost everything tasted different this year.
Ashmeads - good, but not special. (worse than last year)
Calville Blanc - very good. (better than last year)
Cox's Orange - first time I've ever tasted any that were special in any way.
Davey - new to me, definitely a good and unique taste.
Elstar - good. (same as last year)
Golden Grimes - very good. (better than last year)
Golden Russet - very good to great. (better than last year)
Hudson's Golden - very good to great. (same as last year)
Newton Pippen - very good, but not as good as last year.
Roxbury Russet - OK. (worse than last year)
Spitzenberg - OK. (worse than last year)
Stayman Winesap - same as last year, very good.
My Mcintosh were great this year. I be they'll even be better once I've been organic for a couple more years.
I went to the PSU farmer's market and tried both organic and non-organic Gold Rush apples. The organic were spectacular. The non-organic were good, but got me thinking, "What's so special about this apple?"
I agree that the Ashmead's Kernel I've eaten this year were not particularly special.
I fell in love with Karmijn da Sonnaville at the AAFS this year. Absolutely spectacular. I ended up buying a tree.
The Black Twig I had Sunday was really good, but not mindblowing like the one I had last year.
Belle de Boskoop was phenomenal and made me think it's worth the wait.
I greatly prefer strongly flavored apples: high sweet, high tart, high particular flavor.
The King Davids and Jonathans I've had this year were wonderful.
When I've had one apple of a variety and I know it can be amazing, it really motivates me to grow it, because then I know it's possible. If I have never had one that is particularly outstanding, I lose interest and want to plant something else.
John S
PDX OR
What do you orchardists & growers like in cooking apples? I just read the post where Quokka said Winesap "held shape in pie."
I've made a lot of apple pies - and noticed some apples stay in their slice-shape no matter how long you cook them, and when you bite into the pie, it seems you didn't cook them long enough because they are still rather firm...
Other apples cook down soft, and become almost like applesauce, though not quite. I much prefer the latter, as the flavors of cinnamon, nutmeg, sugar, dabs of butter and crust all seem to contribute to a homogenous treat.
Opinions? As a kid, one of the trees on our farm was an old apple that nobody could identify. Early, with red/green stripes and a little russet on the top. It would get dry & soft if you left it on the tree too long but it was a fabulous cooking apple when picked at the right time. It was our favorite and we had King and other good apples to compare it with. It cooked down to a soft, very appley-flavorful sweet-tart tasting pie filling.
Opinions on what a cooking apple should be like? Favorites?
Wolf River! Enormous, cooks down as you described (though not to mush, it comes on in October), nearly scab-free, compact tree, consistent… It also came with my place, though planted by my Great-grandfather. I’ve given away boxes of them for decades and the most positive feedback comes from women who bake them. But - I rarely bite into one… they’re dry and fairly tasteless. But I think you’d be impressed. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3216&start=0
And there’s Winesap… one of my favorites, for several reasons – consistent, firm, good for cooking, for cider / fresh juice - and the birds love them as they hang on late into the winter. There’s a lot to be said about an apple with multiple uses. …but one quarter of that tree is devoted to Bramley’s Seedling; another large but tart cooking and juicing apple. So maybe you should have some of each
Like many of you, I'm sticking with the Winesap. One of the only things that truly keeps my family in good spirits is "mommy's mmm mmm cider" as we have coined it here in Tennessee! For some reason, over the past few years while I have been learning how to manage an orchard, these guys just seem to be the most cooperative and most versatile apple I have come in to contact with!
I rarely eat apple pie, but my preference would be for there to be two kinds of apples in it. One that pretty much holds its shape, and one that turns at least partly mushy and fills in the gaps. Also highly flavored apples would be preferred. Never had a pie made with them, but think Belle de Boskoop or Goldrush would be tops to be one of the apples (Goldrush makes a spectacular apple sauce too).
quokka - I agree very much with your 2-variety apple pie idea. Last fall we found Dumelow's Seedling (an old English cooker) used with Wolf River was a great combination - the acidic Dumelow's Seedling melts around the sweeter Wolf River, giving a great marriage of flavors and textures.
It is interesting how different countries have different styles for cooking apples. Here in the UK we hold apples which cook to what you call "mush" in the highest regard, and we don't often use apples which keep their shape. As a very general rule of thumb, the higher the acid content of the apple, the richer the flavor when cooked - and the more likely it will cook to a mush (or what we prefer to call a puree). As you would expect, our famous Bramley apples have a big dollop of acid and dissolve easily when cooked.
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