I have some scions that I grafted in March and they are just now leafing out. (Today is June 10th)I almost cut them out of the tree. Sitting for 3 months, you'd think they'd be dead. I also had many that just leafed out in the last 2-3 weeks. Has anyone else had this happen?
John S
PDX OR
I can just hope that some of mine do this also - I grafted 12 apple trees about that same time, and all but 3 have sent out leaves....I'm hoping that the other 3 will also; but have kind of given up hope. But not cut them off yet! To be fair, I was trying to be tricky; all the trees are interstem trees using either M-9 or Bud-9, and I grafted the interstems at the same time - and they've all taken; the normal way to do this would have been to have grafted the interstem and waited a year, then added the selected variety - so at least all I've lost if the 3 don't go is the year it would have normally taken anyway. And a couple of the later varieties are only now sending out leaves; though at least they showed signs of life a couple of weeks ago - the last 3 upper grafts look just like they did when I grafted them on, no traces of leaves or bud growth.
More bummed out about the one plum I grafted, it had 3 branches on the rootstock so I did 3 different grafts of different varieties....and not a single one of them took!! Though at least the rootstock's doing great, so I'll try budding later this summer.
Dave
lotus026@yahoo.com
The only grafts I did around here this year were on a ‘root-shoot plum’ I’d dodged with the mower last summer. But it’s done great; 6 grafts, two different varieties, creating six new limbs. It was sure nice using my own collected scions, from trees further away. I had an excellent selection and was easily able to match diameters, so the whip & tongue grafts had complete connections all the way around. I’d planned on procuring some pollinators from the Scion Exchange … but as noted, missed it this spring with a bad cold. I’ll try to add them next year…
Aftercare is vitally important, I’ve had to clear out and pinch back competing shoots from the stock tree, but each scion has lush growth from every bud – better than I’d expected. I’ve still not done any more deer-proofing … though a neighbor dog is pretty much keeping that end of the valley clear of them. But what a nasty cold spring! Things were really jumping with that smidgen of hot weather weeks ago -- even our garden - but not no more … everything’s just hanging in there waiting for some sun… Including me 
i had the exact same situation with 8 big topworked trees at the arboretum this spring. volunteers and i did the grafting no later than march 20th (still early for my liking) and finally they started showing real signs of success in early june. all through april and may i was dismayed at what i perceived as our terrible success rate. even the grafts on rootstocks took that long to really get moving. i think our weather through april and and may was just so hard for establishing grafts, it just kept the scions dormant a lot longer than usual.
i don't think there was anything in terms of aftercare that could have been done other than covering the field grafts with a tent or mini greenhouse for rain protection, or moving potted rootstocks into a greenhouse. (incidentally, the plum and cherry grafts onto rootstocks, and kiwi cuttings, that we made this spring WERE in a greenhouse, with bottom heat, and they did phenomenally.
i think the weather is the true culprit here, and maybe the only thing that might have helped would have been holding the scions longer in the fridge, and grafting in late april when rootstocks were moving better, so that new grafts spent less time sitting out exsposed to bad weather.
but that would have required really good weather forecasters, and/or hindsight.
i think that of all the varieties i grafted at least one scion from each has taken at this point, which is a nice surprise after all the worry.
happy summer,
karen
I'm glad to hear that it wasn't just me, having absolutely no grafting experience before budding this last year! And 2 of my 3 "dud" apple grafts now have finally started budding out the last week now that it's the second half of June:) Really thought that it was too late for them; though I do think it's too late for the 3 on 1 plum, I'll just have to bud graft that later this summer.
But the one my mom (who's garden I borrowed to plant these treelets in, having no garden of my own!) really thinks is cute is the Braeburn apple on MM111/M9 interstem that's only put on about 1 1/2 inches of growth so far...but is in full bloom!! She thinks it's so cute acting like a full grown tree, but it's only a foot tall; boy's she going to be surprised when it's got a half dozen apples on it later this fall:)
Dave
lotus026
[quote="lotus026":x1qc9zlp]I'm glad to hear that it wasn't just me, having absolutely no grafting experience before budding this last year! And 2 of my 3 "dud" apple grafts now have finally started budding out the last week now that it's the second half of June:) Really thought that it was too late for them; though I do think it's too late for the 3 on 1 plum, I'll just have to bud graft that later this summer.
But the one my mom (who's garden I borrowed to plant these treelets in, having no garden of my own!) really thinks is cute is the Braeburn apple on MM111/M9 interstem that's only put on about 1 1/2 inches of growth so far...but is in full bloom!! She thinks it's so cute acting like a full grown tree, but it's only a foot tall; boy's she going to be surprised when it's got a half dozen apples on it later this fall:)
Dave
lotus026[/quote:x1qc9zlp]
Wrong about the timing for plum. Right now is super prime. Cold weather is past, just nice weather now, and plum like a little heat for callusing anway. You have nothing whatsoever to fear if you will cover the final grafted scion with Doc Farwells glue, or even school glue. Holds the moisture in so that the scion does not dry out. Lovely!
PS: Make sure glue does NOT run into the graft union. This means plugging all holes up with plumbers putty or tape or whatever, prior to gluing.
It might not be too late to graft plums, but I already used up my dormant plum scionwood several months ago! And reports from my lady friend tell me that almost all of the dozen or so I did on her accidentally decapitated plum (it recovered, but lost the variety; all it had growing up 5' was now rootstock!) to convert it back to an eating plum seem to be growing...so I'm not a total klutz! And what would I do about the 3 grafts sitting on the tree now doing nothing?! At least 2 of them have plenty of room under them that I could cut off and try again now, but the 3rd I only just barely had room to squeeze on at all. The rootstock's growing great, sending out several big shoots out the sides below the grafts; I just figured I'd try budding onto it later this summer since I didn't do so well with my plum grafts onto bare rootstock.
Dave
lotus026
[quote="lotus026":f3b9x9ga]It might not be too late to graft plums, but I already used up my dormant plum scionwood several months ago! And reports from my lady friend tell me that almost all of the dozen or so I did on her accidentally decapitated plum (it recovered, but lost the variety; all it had growing up 5' was now rootstock!) to convert it back to an eating plum seem to be growing...so I'm not a total klutz! And what would I do about the 3 grafts sitting on the tree now doing nothing?! At least 2 of them have plenty of room under them that I could cut off and try again now, but the 3rd I only just barely had room to squeeze on at all. The rootstock's growing great, sending out several big shoots out the sides below the grafts; I just figured I'd try budding onto it later this summer since I didn't do so well with my plum grafts onto bare rootstock.
Dave
lotus026[/quote:f3b9x9ga]
Kudos for you! You are now an experienced grafter, because you have success! Congratulations. I think people are often times intimidated by grafting, they think it is some magical art or something. Glad you have a feel for it!
I would leave the 3 inactive grafts alone for now. I have actually had grafts stay dormant for a whole summer, and then a whole year later start growing out. That particular one was not a plum, but a quince. Still, I thought "how odd"! Of course, the Doc Farwell glue I use kept the whole deal from drying out for that year.
Take a sharp razor knife and cut those suckers below the grafts flush with the trunk. They will use root energy, possibly taking away from the 3 grafts that would otherwise grow... keep everything rubbed off / cut off that is not grafts.
Oh, and keep the whole thing watered, maybe even fertilize a time or two with something water soluble.
Overall, though, it sounds like you are flying high! It's exciting in a glacial way, aint it?
Yes, the growth on the plum rootstock might be taking away from the scions - but the growth didn't start until later; the scions showed no signs of doing anything, and if I just cut it all off all the new growth I figure I'll just kill the rootstock! At least with leaves putting energy into the system the rootstock will survive, and hate to gamble that cutting off all suckers will force the grafts - which do look fine, not dried out; I wrapped them and coated the entire graft with Doc Farwells. But since I used the same scionwood on my lady friend's tree and she says they're doing fine, I really think that they just didn't take on this rootstock.....that's why I figure just leaving it all alone for now and budding later is my best bet!
Dave
[quote="lotus026":10mgor6x]Yes, the growth on the plum rootstock might be taking away from the scions - but the growth didn't start until later; the scions showed no signs of doing anything, and if I just cut it all off all the new growth I figure I'll just kill the rootstock! At least with leaves putting energy into the system the rootstock will survive, and hate to gamble that cutting off all suckers will force the grafts - which do look fine, not dried out; I wrapped them and coated the entire graft with Doc Farwells. But since I used the same scionwood on my lady friend's tree and she says they're doing fine, I really think that they just didn't take on this rootstock.....that's why I figure just leaving it all alone for now and budding later is my best bet!
Dave[/quote:10mgor6x]
Dave, this is the time of year that I have stubbed off many tree stocks that are up to 8 years old in the ground. There is still lots of moisture at the root level, as deep as they go, and lots of starches left that need to go somewhere, plus the temperature is just perfect for callusing. In my opinion, right now is the sweet spot for anything you have left to graft.
You can cut all the suckers flush with the trunk with confidence. It will not kill your rootstock! And you can slop a big ole bucket of fertilizer water around the rootzone if you are concerned. It will only make the grafts grow more vigorously once they realize they are connected to the stump!
I have had individual bark grafts go 12 feet in one season, just because the stump was mature.
Now if you tried to do all your grafting September 15 and stumped off your rootstock, you would be in a much different situation. One that includes a depleted store of starches in the roots, tight bark, little time for scions to grow, etc etc. It could well kill the tree at that time of year. Timing really is everything.
Right now though? No worries. Go for the clean trunk! Suckers will just use up part of the energy stored in the roots, and could well overwell grafts if left on long enough.
Okay, okay; I'll try taking off the fresh non-scion growth then! It really is growing pretty well, probably 18" of fresh growth off both sides of the 2 main "trunks". Would be nice if that would go into pushing the scion's to grow instead! And having already witnessed how hard it was to kill a plum rootstock on my girlfriend's tree, not lots of worry there either - can always replace it if I do manage to kill it! Besides, might end up buying the place with the way too many orchard trees on it; must be some plums there:)
Dave
The deed is done - I chopped off the more than 2 feet of new growth off the plum below the scions, so hopefully all that energy will decide to push them along - if they're still viable! At least with my apple trees, I'm down to only one out of 12 which hasn't budded out; though with a couple only having gone in the last week or two....guess there's still hope:)
Dave
[quote="lotus026":1z5oopr6]The deed is done - I chopped off the more than 2 feet of new growth off the plum below the scions, so hopefully all that energy will decide to push them along - if they're still viable! At least with my apple trees, I'm down to only one out of 12 which hasn't budded out; though with a couple only having gone in the last week or two....guess there's still hope:)
Dave[/quote:1z5oopr6]
I would expect only success! You are demonstrating alot of faith here, thinking previously that you would kill your tree. I commend you for that.
I find plum to be easy to graft, particularly if they are coated with Doc Farewell glue. Once they are dried out, they are toast. But the Doc Farwell's keep's them moist for weeks, months, and years. I have witnessed it myself. Doc's is really a grafters friend!!
Your ratio of apple success to failure is excellent. I had two failures this year -- one unknown cause, the other due to something that girdled the rootstock at ground level before I was aware of it. But I have duplicates, so no worries!
You are doing just fine!
And I hope you buy that defunct apple orchard!
I grafted my cherries and plums in June and did a couple of apples this past weekend. I just never got around to using my scions. Much of the scion wood I had intended to use was in bad shape.
2 of the 4 cherry varieties are doing well (Meteor and Montmorency) on my Compact Stella. 3 of the 4 plums are active after 2 weeks (St. Catherine, New York Mirabelle, and Bryanston Gage) I suspect the others didn't do so well because the scions weren't in the best of shape.
Oh well, tried cutting back my plum rootstock growth to see if that would push the scions; but no luck - they're dead; but every other dormant bud on the plant came out! I ended up removing 35 sprouts from the rootstock, keeping only 4 to maintain it; I'll try bud grafting onto it later this summer as I'd figured on doing. Guess it would have been hard to kill the rootstock, from the way it responded!
Dave
Hi Dave,
My advice, when bud grafting the prunus genus is to position the bud so that it does not get hit all winter with direct rain action, nor underneath where a water drop might hang for a long time. My success is much better when the bud is put in an area that is sheltered from prevailing storms and pooling water. Usually this means on the northern side of a branch or trunk as most really wet storms come in from the south and west.. And not the absolute topside of a horizontal branch, nor the absolute bottom of such a branch, as water is excessive in these positions as well.
I am also hesitant to spray multiple times in the winter lime-sulfur, thinking it might just wipe out my little bud.
I have in the past gone as far as tying a shingle over the bud area, to keep it on the dry side all winter. And on potted trees, move them under cover to keep the rain off them. That improved longevity of budgrafts too.
Let me tell you: Our Oregon winters can be pretty hard on prunus buds. Moreso than apple and pear, I have noticed! I think it has something to do with pseudomonas susceptibility.
Idyllwild
simplepress
jafar
Marsha H
Viron
John S
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