Howdy! I am new to the site.
We started an orchard in eastern Oregon this year about 25 trees. Most of the trees fresh eating types. Honeycrisp, Pixie Crunch, Granny Smith,Golden Del,Liberty, Sundance, red lus,gold rush,cortland, winesap, haralson,john gold, wolf river, grimes.
We are trying to also make cider. After a lot of reading... it appears that some of the ones we have planted can be used for the "sweet" apples in the cider mix.
What and where can I get some bitter or tart cider apples for the mix? ... Arkansas Black, Baldwin, Calville Blac, Chisel Jersey, Criterion, Empire, Grimes golden, Golden Russet, Gravestein, Jordan Russett, Mutzu, snow, wickson, wolf river, yarlington mill, foxwhelp, Kingston Black, Muscadet di Dieppe Apple?.... These are the ones I have researched... any input or suggestions? on trees or cider making?
thanks in advance!
dan
Dan,
...gonna see if I can’t sic Shaun (Shepherd) on ya! Our HOS Vice Prez, he’s a busy guy, but he’s spent time in your neck of the woods and is likely our Cider Champ 
Stay tuned!
Check fence rows and roadsides right now for cider apples. I found one the other day that was just loaded. Obviously a seedling, not a cultivar. It was a bittersweet. Took cuttings for spring grafting.
I just participated in a cider pressing a few weeks ago. We had a mix of apples and it tasted really good. When you don't have a mix the flavor will be much less interesting. What I've seen recommended is 40% sweet, 40% tart, 10%bittersweet, 10% bittersharp. If you taste some of these bitter cider apples at the AAFS, you almost can't swallow them. I can't think of where else you could get scions for them, except for plumfun's idea. They are BAD for fresh eating, but mixed together with others, they give it a more interesting flavor.
Of course, if you learn to graft, you don't have to make the bitter cider apples the whole tree. Just a branch or two:enough to flavor your cider.
My two cents,
John S
PDX OR
Hi Dan,
Are you wanting to make hard cider or apple juice?
Of the ones you've already planted Honeycrisp, Granny Smith, Liberty, Winesap, Haralson and Grimes are pretty good cider varieties,(plenty of acid). Some russets would also be very nice, Belle de Boscoop, Golden Russet, Ashmead's Kernal, Ribston Pippin. Wickson is very good (same sort of flavor profile). What you really need now are some bittersweets. My favorite is Dabbinett, also Yalington Mill and Nehoe. I don't really know how any of these will do where you are?
We will have all these and many more available as scion wood at our Fruit Propagation Fair, in March. Many mail order nurseries have a good selection of cider apple trees.
Thanks for the input everyone!
We will be planting several tart and bitter trees this spring to add to the mix.
I am looking forward to making both apple juice and hard cider.
Any information about making either one available on line on this site?
thanks again,
dan
Shaun,
Which of the hard-cider apples of your fav's yield the best from year to year?
Pretty much all the same?
If a person wanted to plant the perfect hardcider orchard, what ratio's of each tree would you recommend.
If I am going to devote 'real estate' to hard cider, I wanna do it right! high alcohol, high taste 
Dabbinett is the best, it's a pretty annual bearer, the apples are durable, (they can lay on the ground for a month)they have good sugar and tannin content, and it'll make decent cider all by it's self. It's only drawback is that the tree is very suseptable to anthracnose.
If you figure for 1/3 to 1/2 bittersweet juice you can make good cider
Thanks Shaun. So that’s “Dabbinett†-- thought for a second there you were flustered – as in Dangnabit! 
Here’s what “Anthracnose†looks like folks – Dangnabit! 
I have the Caville Blanc. Can imagine it has good acidity for cider.
Cannot see why you'd want Wolf River though for cider.
Only have one small tree of Caville Blanc, but there would be about a dozen scions of it.
BTW it is not a good keeper, 6 weeks are about it. 
Back again.... I am selecting trees to fill the final row on our place. (see first post for varieties in the ground)
I have several cider trees slotted for this spring but I was wondering?
Should I have two of say grimes golden, wolf river .... or branch out to another variety?
asking it another way... does a bunch of same apples make better cider than a mix of a bunch of different types of apples? or is this a personal taste perference?
thanks in advance,
dan
Dan,
Diversity, always diversity, more kinds is always better! Well with apples anyway.
Dan, I’m not sure what you’re planning to do with the Wolf River, but mine are a pretty dry apple, if Gigantic! They’re likely one of the best for baking, but I don’t care to eat them fresh. Pressing 60 to 80 gallons of apple/pear juice a year… I’ve never tossed them in… No need to answer, but I wouldn’t count on them as a ‘cider apple.’
Granny Smith is a very tart 'acidic' apple and should be plenty cheap on the East Side of the Cascades in Season.
As others have said, wild seedlings are often very good candidates for bitterness, you can taste test and find out really fast.
View them as a beer maker would view hops.
Here is a very affordable source of one year whip trees.
Check Century Farm Orchards for their collection of several hundred heritage apple and pear trees.
http://www.centuryfarmorchards.com/
These varieties date back to an age prior to soft drinks (e.g. Coke) when cider was the drink of choice in the colonies and original states.
Thank you Berry Ridge!
That link will be most helpful to some of my Carolina friends.
Dan:
Last year I too, was in a similar situation, I made cider(sweet & hard) for the first time. I blended several varieties of cider apples from other orchards with the seven varieties of "sweet" apples from my own small orchard (near Lake Chelan, WA). Having a good experience with this cider making led me to search for cider apples to add in my own orchard. After some research (a number of books and numerous web pages), I ordered six such trees from a couple of local nurseries and planted them last week. You can contact these nurseries to order such trees and/or the Washington State University research station at Mount Vernon, WA for cider tree scions (they offer such cuttings from over a dozen heritage cider trees).
These contacts are:
A. Raintree, Morton, WA; see at: http://www.raintreenursery.com/
B. Burntridge, Onalaska, WA; see at: http://www.burntridgenursery.com/
C. WSU Research Station, Mt. Vernon, WA see at: http://mtvernon.wsu.edu/
I would be happy to share with you more information, e.g., building a grinder, list of helpful books on cider making, etc. My email is cal1advise@aol.com
One classic recipe is to put 40% sweet apples, 40% sour apples, 20% bittersweet apples and 20%bitter sharp apples.
John S
PDX OR
Umm, that totals 120%. What should be modified? I'm not used to seeing sour in there, so I'd guess that should be knocked down to 2o%. Just a wild guess.
mh
Math is hard! Maybe I meant 40% sweet 40% tart(sour) 10% bittersweet, 10% bittersharp. Thanks for checking.
John S
PDX OR
[quote="calva":1qyq3r55]I am new at this.
How much cider an average tree may produce?[/quote:1qyq3r55]
Too many variables to provide specific answer.
For example, production depends upon root stock, Mature standard tree might produce 10 to 20 bu in good year, but 4 to 5 bu more typical for a mature semi-dwarf (MM111).
Different apple varieties have different juice concentrations, some are relatively dry and others are relatively juicy.
The fineness of grinding and pressure of press influence have much of the avilable juice will be extracted.
Reports of juice per bu of apples range from 1 to 3 gal per bu of whole apples.
Suggest you find one of the good books on cider making and dive in to learn more.
According to Cider: Making, Using, & Enjoying Sweet & Hard Cider by Annie Proulx & Lew Nichols, on page 128, they claim:
1 dwarf tree = 1 bushel of apples
1 semidwarf = 4-5 bushels
1 bushel = 2-3 gallons
I have also heard that it takes about 15 lbs of apples to get one gallon, and a bushel is about 45 lbs.
Some feral seedling apples are loaded with tannin and very bitter, but like hops, this can be a valuable addition to a Cider blend.........especially for hard cider. I would go for three types..... Very high sugar apples like the Golden Delicious types, very sharp acidic apples, and a few !0% bitter types.
Get to a Cider tasting event or two, and find out the mixture of apples used............in the one you like best.
Also bring a designated driver.