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Mulberry Problem!
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rwouhaybi
7 Posts
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1
July 17, 2017 - 1:45 pm

Hello everybody,

I came across this website recently while researching European plums and was happy to realize that HOS is local to me. I live in Portland. Since then I joined HOS and look forward to being part of the local events.

I have an obsession with growing edibles. 9 years ago, I purchased a house and started on a mission to transform the boring grass yard (back and front) into an edible garden. I have added multiple trees and reserved decent areas for annuals.

I grew up outside the US and was fond of Mulberries as a child. Have great memories harvesting and enjoying black and white mulberries. During my first visit to Farmington Gardens, I was told that I cannot plant mulberry in Oregon since they are invasive. Later, I discovered that is not true and purchased a very small tree (12 inches) in 2014 from Al's Garden. I failed to save the pot it came in or the label. This year, the tree is 6 feet tall had few berries on it, they were tasty but very small. The leaves are also very small in comparison to the ones that I remember from my childhood and some have white markings. Is this normal here? Some of the plants that I saw recently at One Green World have the same look and size of leaves that made mulberries so popular for silk worms. What is your experience? Is my tree some weird variety? Does it need a fertilizer or some other kind of pampering? Here is a photo and thanks for looking.

Rita

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jafar
763 Posts
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2
July 18, 2017 - 10:50 am

Welcome to the forum Rita.

Unfortunately, I don't think the photo made it through.

May I ask what country you grew up in?

There are 3 major species of mulberries, Alba, Rubra, and Nigra plus hybrids.  Amongst each are many individual named cultivars.  Individual cultivars can be much different from one another, as they are in other fruits like apples or plums.  You can't determine the cultivar just by looking at the color of the fruit.

Personally, I find the fruit of Morus Nigra to be the most suited to my tastes.  They are strongly sweet/tart with a unique taste.  They are also quite slow growing and have relatively small fruit compared to some cultivars of the others.  So if that is what you have, growing to 6 feet in 2 or 3 years seems reasonable.

Morus Nigra cultivars have names such as Black Beauty, Persian Black, Noir de Spain and such.   The dormant buds are darker than the other species.

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rwouhaybi
7 Posts
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3
July 18, 2017 - 1:50 pm

Let me try to upload the photo again and see if it works now. mulberry.jpg

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rwouhaybi
7 Posts
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4
July 18, 2017 - 1:54 pm

Thanks for your answer Jafar.

I am initially from Lebanon. Mount Lebanon had an abundance of Mulberry trees to support the silkworm industry in the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century.

The fruits on my tree were definitely much smaller than I am used to, and so are the leaves. Can I graft other mulberry species on my tree?

Thanks,

Rita

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
772 Posts
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July 18, 2017 - 11:17 pm

I had to pull out my sales brochure from Raintree nursery to see how many species are sold as edibles and Jafar is correct, there are 3 listed. When I lived around Puget sound I got into the habit of visiting a very fast growing mulberry tree at a demonstration garden (greenbelt area of Bellevue WA). The cultivar was wellington which Raintree has it listed as a hybrid between two of the species. And good news is that hybrids always makes for faster growth on anything. Now 25 years later the tree is still there bearing fruit by itself.

I liked the fruit flavor. it might be considered the same mass scale as roadside blackberry but only long and it is missing of any sour at any stage of fruit development. At the time I had looked into the university horticulture library how to reproduce mulberry, so they are increased very easily by taking cuttings. They also graft, so hopefully you can get something like the hybrids from nurseries or scion exchanges to get some grafted at the soil level. The old system can act as a nurse root to kick start your new tree! (hopefully the good news you were looking for?)

Since then I moved my plans from populating the house I am in now to what others have been doing with pome and stone fruits. Smile

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jafar
763 Posts
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6
July 18, 2017 - 11:39 pm

Those leave do indeed look small compared to what I've seen.

I believe silkworms eat Morus Alba which are supposed to be insipid.  Those are probably what you remember.

I think mulberry are generally graft compatible with one another if you want to topwork some or all of it. Alba are supposed to root from cuttings, Nigra don't.  I'm not sure about Rubra.

If you come to the upcoming Arboretum potluck and pruning demo after the budding workshop, there may be some mulberries there to try.  Although, I think the big trees got cut way back.

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Rooney
Vancouver SW Washington
772 Posts
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July 19, 2017 - 4:46 pm

One thing we all agree is that the leaves are very small. Since Rita confirmed eating some then any confusion with label swapping then the focus becomes strictly what ever could cause small leaves. The one I had experienced seeing had large and lobed leaves. ie. google

So it might be some risk to you for your time involved grafting it to another one because if what you have in the original form is a disease then think of pointing the finger at whom you got yours from. To see what I mean take a look at google books in the following link;

Symptoms of the Dwarf Disease

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rwouhaybi
7 Posts
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8
July 21, 2017 - 8:35 am

Hey Jafar,

I don't see the potluck announced anywhere on the website. Is there a date?

Rooney, I am hesitant to say the tree has a disease only because it looks really healthy, with the exception of some white on the leaves (and very limited). It also seems to be growing fast. In comparison to its neighbor (a brown turkey fig) that got planted a year earlier, the mulberry is now bigger even though I pruned it back this last winter quite a bit! Also I noticed that the top growth has larger leaves than the lower branches. I will attempt to take a comparison photo later today and an overall photo of the tree.

Thanks for the help.

Rita

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jafar
763 Posts
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9
July 21, 2017 - 5:39 pm

We've been remiss.  Normally it should be on the calendar on the events tab at the top.   It isn't there now, but should be by tomorrow.

The date is Saturday August 5th (in 2 weeks).  There's a free budding demonstration in the morning, with budwood in the arboretum and some brought from members.   Some potted rootstocks will be available for purchase.

Following will be a pruning demo and a potluck picnic at lunchtime.  

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jafar
763 Posts
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10
July 22, 2017 - 9:03 pm

Hmm, the events tab still isn't updated.

The budding workshop is first.

 

8/5/17 – Saturday 9:00 am – 3:00 pm – Budding Workshop, Summer Pruning and Annual Potluck, Arboretum

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ET
Junction City, Oregon
19 Posts
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11
July 24, 2017 - 5:00 pm

The small leaves look like the same from a tree I have, of which the original Dave Wilson label listed as “Dwarf Black Mulberry M. nigra” but likely it is the same as “Dwarf Everbearing Mulberry” or “Dwarf Black Issai Mulberry”, which is M. alba. 

I could not find the same tree on the Dave Wilson web site any more, instead it only listed “Dawrf Everbearing Mulberry” now.

On Burntridge site (http://www.burntridgenursery.c.....oducts/20/):

“DWARF BLACK ISSAI MULBERRY (Morus alba) This variety is a natural dwarf, branching low, so it will be a 6 ft. bush or small tree. Well adapted to container culture and humid climates as it was selected in Northern Florida. Dwarf Black Issai Mulberry was formally mistakenly listed by us as a selection of Morus nigra. Zone 7-10.”

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rwouhaybi
7 Posts
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12
July 26, 2017 - 8:47 am

Thanks for the info Jafar, unfortunately, I can't make the potluck this time. But I will be looking forward to other group events.

ET, thanks for finding this info. The tree does look healthy, I really can't say that it looks unhealthy in any way other than the few leaves with white which could be nutrients deficiency from previous years. I planted it in a less than ideal spot but this spring I did add organic fertilizer and gypsum to the soil around it and it seems to appreciate it,

Rita

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John S
PDX OR
2800 Posts
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13
July 28, 2017 - 7:33 pm

Hello Rita and ET,

Welcome to the HOS forum.

I have been growing MOrus Nigra cultivar Noir de Spain for about 20 years.  It has outstanding flavor. I agree with Jafar also on that the alba "white mulberries" (even though they don't look white) are sweet but not interesting at all in flavor. I would never grow it in my yard.  The HOS arboretum has Illinois Everbearing, which I'm pretty sure is the most popular variety in the US. I think it has very good flavor.  I think it is a hybrid between rubra and one other.  My nigra really did grow slowly at first.  It will stain also, so don't plant it by the front door or a white cement patio or driveway if that bothers you.  As a member you may have a cutting of mine if you want to graft it into your tree.  

John S
PDX OR

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ET
Junction City, Oregon
19 Posts
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14
July 29, 2017 - 3:34 pm

Thank you, John. I had a Noir de Spain. A few years back I visited Lucile Whitman and asked for her favorite mulberry among all the varieties she carried and so bought a Noir de Spain. As you mentioned, the initial growth was very slow. The little tree did not survive the two major deep freezes in the past few years. (I am in Lane county.) The first one weakened it and the more recent one finished it off. The rootstock survived and thrived, and I also have two young seedling mulberry plants. So I have been looking into grafting mulberry. I will write you before the scion exchange next year. For now, I am glad that I have a young Illinois Everbearing (M. alba x rubra), we have been eating berries from it everyday for quite a while this year, and now in the hot summer they are getting a bit too sweet to my taste, so I use them for making vinegar infusion.

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John S
PDX OR
2800 Posts
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15
July 30, 2017 - 11:52 am

I'm happy to oblige. Just try to remind me, because I won't remember.

JohN  S
PDX OR

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rwouhaybi
7 Posts
(Offline)
16
August 1, 2017 - 10:10 pm

Wow, that sounds awesome, thanks for the offer John. I am going to take you up on it next Spring.

By the way, I was at the HOS Arboretum a couple of weeks ago, and saw the mulberry trees they have, the tag said Russian Mulberry.

Now, I have to admit that I am addicted to white mulberries, even buy the dried ones and in my opinion (which you obviously don't share :)), they are fantastic!

Rita

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caseroj
53 Posts
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17
December 28, 2017 - 2:21 pm

rwouhaybi,

 

The picture of your mulberry tree leaves looks a little like one that was gifted to me a couple of years ago.  I was told mine was an everbearing mulberry tree.  It fruits all year round in zone 9b where I live.

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John S
PDX OR
2800 Posts
(Offline)
18
December 29, 2017 - 11:19 pm

Hi Rita,

Let me know if you want me to save a scion or two for you from the black mulberry Noir de Spain.  It has a very different taste than "white" mulberries, which I find to be uninteresting.

THanks,

John S
PDX OR

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ET
Junction City, Oregon
19 Posts
(Offline)
19
December 30, 2017 - 7:26 am

Hi John,

 

Please do save scions of Noir de Spain for me. I assume I will be able to find you at the desk answering questions during the scion exchange.

Thanks  lot! Happy New Year!

 

ET

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John S
PDX OR
2800 Posts
(Offline)
20
December 30, 2017 - 10:08 am

OK ET,

I couldn't figure out how to make the rest of the message in capital initals, so I gave up.

Yes,  I will be there, sadly without Jerry, but hopefully Jafar and a bunch of the other cohorts will be there.

I think I'm going to go get scions right now. It's that time of year.

JohN S
PDX OR

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rwouhaybi
7 Posts
(Offline)
21
December 30, 2017 - 10:55 pm

Thanks John,

Yes, please I would love a scion or 2.

Happy Holidays and looking forward to meeting everybody at the exchange.

 

Rita

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